Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor and international board certified lactation consultant. In this Mothering Live Chat, “The Hardest Job You’ll Ever Love: Myths and Facts about Maternal Stress and Depression,” Cynthia talks about depression and its symptoms and myths that can keep mothers from getting the help they need, strategies for coping with the everyday stresses of mothering, and resources for support and more information. Although her talk focuses on mothers, much of the information is also relevant to fathers as they cope with their own or their partner's stress or depression.
www.mothering.com
4/27/06

16 mamas in attendance

All Mothering Sponsored chats with Cynthia:
4/27/06  5/25/06  6/29/06  8/23/06  9/28/06  10/26/06

Webmama_Tina: today we're so happy to have cynthia good mojab!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm very glad to be here!
Webmama_Tina: cynthia, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little about your background and expertise
Webmama_Tina: and the topic for today is: In this Mothering Live Chat, “The Hardest Job You’ll Ever Love: Myths and Facts about Maternal Stress and Depression,” Cynthia will talk about depression and its symptoms, myths that can keep mothers from getting the help they need, strategies for coping with the everyday stresses of mothering, and resources for support and more information. Although her talk focuses on mothers, much of the information is also relevant to fathers as they cope with their own or their partner's stress or depression.
Webmama_Tina: and i'm so glad to see you all! if you have any online groups and friends you can invite, please help us spread the word...i've already spammed a couple communities :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I am a professional in two fields: clinical psychology and lactation consulting. I write, research, and speak about topics related to psychology, culture, and the family.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I also have a private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting ( www.lifecirclecc.com ). I provide counseling and consulting services in-person, as well as by phone.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Many of my clients are breastfeeding mothers who had a difficult time finding a mental health professional that was adequately knowledgeable about and supportive of breastfeeding.
Webmama_Tina: here's the clickable link: www.lifecirclecc.com    it will open in a new window for ya, mamas. :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I have an MS. in clinical psychology, am an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant, am a Registered Lactation Consultant, and am Certified in Acute Traumatic Stress Management.
Webmama_Tina: don't mind me as i post my little spiel for latecomers...
Webmama_Tina: Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm  ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm a member of Mothering magazine's Expert Panel and I answer questions about breastfeeding and maternal mental health.
Webmama_Tina: at this point, mamas, feel free to start throwing out your question marks and as soon as cynthia's ready to start taking questions, angie will let you know when to go. :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm ready any time, Tina.
housepoet: ?
MOD_Angie: upcoming chatter(s):  housepoet
MOD_Angie: go ahead housepoet
housepoet: Hello Cynthia, I'm Noel and I help run the www.breastfeedingisnormal.org  chat on Wednesdays. What I'm wondering is what are your favorite words to say to a mom that you think is suffering from PPD. Like your opener."
jasonsmom: ?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: That's a good question! It really depends on the situation. In my role as a clinical counselor, a mother has already approached me because she recognizes that she needs help. My first steps are to listen well and to express my understanding of what she is saying so that she feels heard or can correct my understanding.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: If she herself has not brought up the issue of depression, but is seeing me for a different reason, and based on what she is saying, I begin to think she may be experiencing depression....
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: then I might say something like, Jane, what you have been telling me suggests you may be experiencing depression." Then I might let her know which symptoms she is reporting that lead me to suspect depression. A conversation usually follows where we talk about the symptoms of depression and I clarify how often and in what manner she is experiencing those symptoms."
housepoet: thank you!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I would certainly let her know how very common depression is, particularly in the first year postpartum (up to 20% of women experience it).
kristenandmadeleine: ?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Women need to know that they do not cause themselves to experience depression. It's not a character flaw or a sign of weakness.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Next question, please.
MOD_Angie: upcoming chatter(s):  jasonsmom  kristenandmadeleine
arianamama: ?
jasonsmom: Hello Cynthia! My question is: Is it possible to experience PPD after the first year? What advice would you give to mothers who are experiencing some sort of depression (maybe not PPD?) because they have been forced to go back to work?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Postpartum depression, by definition, is depression experienced in the first year after birth. However, depression that begins postpartum, which remains undiagnosed and untreated, can certainly continue after the first year. Depression can occur after the first year postpartum, and while it would not technically be called postpartum" depression, many of the factors that contribute to postpartum depression could be playing a role."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: For example, role conflicts (like between the role of mother and the role of employed woman), fatigue, stress, too much work and too little support.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Regardless of whether depression is occurring during the first year after birth or beyond, treatment is important. One of the challenges in finding appropriate treatment is that depression inherently interferes with functioning (though the manner in which it interferes varies)--which can make the search for treatment that much harder.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A woman who is experiencing depression that seems related to her experience of mothering might consider working with a mental health care provider who has experience with and understands mothering issues, such as postpartum depression.
jasonsmom: ok, thanks!
MOD_Angie: upcoming chatter(s):  kristenandmadeleine    arianamama
kristenandmadeleine: Hello Cynthia!  I am very interested in becoming a lactation consultant but I have no health care schooling or anything.  Everything I have seen says that you have to have nursing school or be a healt care worker already.  Where would start?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Postpartum Support International has a great deal of information on their website about depression. My website has many links, including theirs, for information about depression.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A variety of routes exist for becoming a lactation consultant. The International Board of Lactation Consultant Examiners ( www.iblce.org ) has information about becoming an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. While nursing school or already being a health care provider is certainly a useful background for becoming an IBCLC, it is not, at this time, required. I know many IBCLCs whose foundation is that of a lay breastfeeding counselor (e.g., a La Leche League Leader). The website of the IBLCE would be a good place to find initial answers to your questions.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Best wishes!
kristenandmadeleine: Thanks a lot
MOD_Angie: upcoming chatter(s):  arianamama
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome!
arianamama: I help run a small breastfeeding peer support group online and we see SO many women who *want* to breastfeed but stop because of what seems to be PPD or stress.
arianamama: Is there anything we can do to help lower the number of women this happens to, either while they're still pregnant or while they're in the middle of it?
arianamama: It's so sad to see the women months or years later say that they stopped BF because of PPD and they wished they hadn't.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Absolutely. Postpartum depression is often depression that is diagnosed postpartum but which began during pregnancy.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Similar rates of depression exist during pregnancy and postpartum. Up to 20%. Even higher for mothers of multiples, premature babies, babies in the NICU....
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Repeated, routine screening for depression during pregnancy, and repeated, routine screening during the entire year postpartum is essential. If all ob-gyns, pediatricians, lactation consultants (lay and professional) routinely and repeatedly screened for depression, we would be able to help mothers begin treatment for depression much earlier.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The earlier we can identify depression, the earlier a mother can get treatment, the less impact that depression will have on her experience of mothering and breastfeeding.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale is a widely used screening tool, takes just minutes to administer, and can help a health care provider identify depression in mothers so that referral to a health care provider can be made. It is available on a variety of websites.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The more that health care providers talk about depression, the more women will feel comfortable revealing what they are experiencing. Many women suffer in silence. Many health care providers don't ask. This is unacceptable.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Prevention is also an important component of lowering depression risk. Mothers need good postpartum support. They need to know during pregnancy how important this is, so that they can arrange for support to be available to them postpartum. Support can come from family, friends, members of their house of worship, etc. Women were not meant to mother alone, especially in the early weeks postpartum!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Mothers also need EARLY and effective help with breastfeeding problems. Pain is a risk factor for development of depression. And, pain during breastfeeding is an extremely common reason for weaning.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Sore nipples are almost always the result of latch and positioning that need adjustment. Things can look good on the outside, but if the nipple comes out of the baby's mouth with a compression stripe across the tip or is shaped somewhat like a new tube of lipstick (rather angled), then the latch wasn't what it needs to be to avoid pain and injury.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Women also need support to grieve the loss of breastfeeding. This is a loss that is virtually unacknowledged in US society. Women can grieve deeply--and with little or no support.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: An excellent resource is the book, The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood: Coping with Mothering Stress, Depression and Burnout. Every mother's support group would benefit from this book in its lending library--or at least the book listed on a resource list."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Kathleen Kendall-Tackett is the author.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Do we have another question?
arianamama: Is there anything specific we can do to help the mother grieve the loss of a bf relationship?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Yes. First, find people who recognize the loss of breastfeeding as a real loss. People who will not respond with something like, You did your best. What's important is that you can feed your baby." or "What's the big deal?" or some other statement that may be well meaning, may even be true, but serves to communicate that a mother's feelings are somehow wrong."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: That's a first step for a mother, but I see you wanted to know what others can do...
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: So others have the opportunity to recognize the loss of breastfeeding as a real loss. When a mother is grieving, she needs the opportunity to talk about her loss. So, more than anything, she needs us to listen. We can ask questions like, What did you expect breastfeeding to be like?" "What does the loss of breastfeeding mean to you?" to show how sincerely we are interested in her experience. We can echo back what she is saying so that she feels understood and/or has the opportunity to clarify."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Mothers can share their triumphs and joys with just about anyone. But losses can be shared only with those who will listen without conveying that the mother shouldn't be feeling what she is feeling.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: If a health care provider regularly sees women who are grieving the loss of breastfeeding, they would be helped by learning more about grief. An excellent book on grief is Grief Counseling and Grief Therapy" by Worden. It doesn't have a word about breastfeeding loss in it, but it is a compassionately written and well-referenced book on grief for professionals who want to be more effective with helping their clients grieve well."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Do we have another question?
Webmama_Tina: i think we're out of time
Webmama_Tina: and questions :)
Webmama_Tina: we didn't have anymore in queue did we angie?
MOD_Angie: nope
Webmama_Tina: ok perfect! :)
Webmama_Tina: thank you SOOOO Much cynthia! this was very informative!!!
Webmama_Tina: i know noel wants to tell ya something...LOL
housepoet: GREAT CHAT
kristenandmadeleine: thanks a lot
arianamama: Thank you SO MUCH what wonderful info
housepoet: oh man, Cynthia, I jus wanted to say you were so right on the money about validating women's feelings
Webmama_Tina: :)
housepoet: that rarely happens that a mother is told that her feelings of loss are ok. Thank you so much for speaking about that.
Webmama_Tina: truly!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're very welcome! Thank you all for participating. Maternal stress and depression need to be out in the open so that women can feel comfortable talking about it and can get the help they need and deserve.
Webmama_Tina: it seems just like validating those of us who feel a loss for having had a c-section...same concept
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome. I'm glad the information was helpful.
Webmama_Tina: our society just blows our feelings off...but they are REAL
kristenandmadeleine: Yes it does.  I got told to get over my PPD.  I had a scary delivery, baby and I almost died couldnt take her home and Im just supposed to get over it
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Absolutely. Women grieve deeply about the loss of an expected experience of breastfeeding, birth, mothering, etc. Women's roles are so devalued in our society that our losses are devalued as well.
housepoet: YES TINA
Webmama_Tina: yup
housepoet: I was totally thinking about birth the same way too. 'oh you have your baby, and that's all that matter.' I hate that line
Webmama_Tina: *nodding head furiously*
Webmama_Tina: oh me too noel! there's a great article about that called you should be happy"...its short sweet and SO to the point"
kristenandmadeleine: Omg, housepoet I hated that.  its not how the baby is born, its that she's okay"  Well its all well and good when it's not them"
housepoet: send me that link please I'd love to read it
Webmama_Tina: yup and i'm sure they do the same thing for moms about breastfeeding too...oh as long as your baby is being nourished, what does it matter?" like you said cynthia"
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm working on a chapter about the impact of traumatic birth on maternal mental health and breastfeeding. The book is for primary health care providers. I hope it will help folks recognize how deeply impacted a mother can be by a negative or traumatic birth experience.
Webmama_Tina: definitely true about women's feelings not being validated!
Webmama_Tina: yes, noel, i'll dig it up...lemme see...
Webmama_Tina: you know what really blows my mind?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Discounting a person's loss can stop grief in its tracks. Grief is the process by which we heal. Stopping a normal, healthy, human process is not in anyon'es best interest.
Webmama_Tina: even after you lose a child, our feelings are not validated
Webmama_Tina: after a miscarriage...and even after a stillbirth!
kristenandmadeleine: can you send my OB a copy?
kristenandmadeleine: Actually, I'll hit him upside the head with it
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Very true, Tina.
Webmama_Tina: i got you're young, you can have more children""
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I have a variety of resources on these issues on my website.
Webmama_Tina: that's not the point, dammit! i wanted THAT child! blows my mind!
Webmama_Tina: lol kristen...i'll go look for it...it was written by a veterinarian, of all things, lol...she's very active on the HBAC egroup
Webmama_Tina: gretchen something
kristenandmadeleine: I went in for my 6 week appointment, tried to explain to him about how I thought I was dealing with PPD.  Before talking to me he told me to wean and tried to write me a rx
arianamama: Oh I know her I think
arianamama: Well I talked to her while planning my VBAC
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm sorry for your loss, Tina. You deserved support, not hurtful cliches.
Webmama_Tina: oh real nice, kristen
kristenandmadeleine: that is awful tina
careformom: Cynthia, is it alright for me to print off the links you have on your website to handout?
kristenandmadeleine: yeah, and he told me i was a pefect canidate for vbac, now he said he wouldnt touch me with a ten foot pole.  my placenta issues" will kill me and the baby if I even try to labour"
Webmama_Tina: cynthia...yes, very true...and the thing that really gets me is that i heard that from a woman who also has experienced losing a child...very bizarre...i think she just didn't know what to say
mr_quack: kristenandmadeleine, when I told my Mom I wasn't enjoying my baby, she told memost of the time you won't.  That's life."  At my 6 week appointment I was asked whether I'd hurt myself or the child.  When I said I'd try not to, I was told I was "OK""
housepoet: nice chat ladies! Talk to you all soon, thanks again Cynthia!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Many primary health care providers are not adequately trained in issues of mental health, including depression. No one should be handed a prescription on a few minutes of conversation. Women need screening (via a tool like the EPDS), and referral to a mental health care provider whose specialty is maternal mental health.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome, housepoet!
kristenandmadeleine: omg  mr_quack !  Thank god I never got that far down.  I never wanted to hurt myself or her. But I would walk around thinking i would just drop dead and who would take care of the baby
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Careformom, would you email me privately to discuss how you want to use the information on my website? My email is on my website ( www.lifecirclecc.com ).
kristenandmadeleine: i would lay on the couch nursing her reliving my birth hour after hour.  i would cry so hard i couldnt breathe
mr_quack: Breastfeeding was the only thing that saved me.  I kept thinking that if I died, the baby would get formula.  Sad, but true.
careformom: Sure be glad to
Webmama_Tina: :(
Webmama_Tina: unbelievable the stories you hear....
kristenandmadeleine: same here  mr_quack .  i was suprised i would be able to breastfeed her. i wasnt allowed" to for three days.  i had to bring in mymilk with a pump"
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Reliving birth trauma is a symptom of posttraumatic stress, which like postpartum depression, deserves validation and treatment.
Webmama_Tina: well mamas, y'all are welcome to chat as long as you like.... cynthia this was really great! i hope you can come back again sometime!
mr_quack: Kristenand madelein, it's incredible that you managed to get through all that.
jasonsmom: thanks Cynthia! I learned a lot today!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Thank you, Tina, for making this chat possible.
Webmama_Tina: i'm going to see if i can find that article...so far i'm coming up with nothing...i'll post to hbac and see if gretchen or someone responds
Webmama_Tina: oh sure thing!
Webmama_Tina: and remember, mamas...we're always open!
Webmama_Tina: day and nite, come chat!
Webmama_Tina: post somewhere and invite some friends if there's no one in here
Webmama_Tina: there's people chatting in here every day...just not always at the same times...so invite someone over....or hang out for awhile
Webmama_Tina: i get the transcripts and see lots of regulars hanging out here at different times :)
mr_quack: Thank you, Cynthia
sanguinespeed: what is the particular purpose of this chat room?
kristenandmadeleine: Thanks for the chat Cynthia.
Webmama_Tina: even have an aussie here a lot! downundermum
Webmama_Tina: sanguinespeed mommy chats is all about moms connecting
sanguinespeed: okay, so whatever we'd like?
Webmama_Tina: we have some scheduled chats to help us all learn new things...cuz we all like to learn new things, right? :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Whether you are here as a mother, a professional, or both, please consider membership in Postpartum Support International. They provide an enormous amount of support to mothers with postpartum depression.
Webmama_Tina: but yes, the purpose of the site is for moms to have a place to chat, whenever they like!
sanguinespeed: is this a scheduled chat?
Webmama_Tina: yes this one is the mothering magazine sponsored chat
sanguinespeed: ooooooh, how exciting!
Webmama_Tina: once a week mothering magazine has a guest speaker lined up for us...either on wed or thurs usually
Webmama_Tina: join the egroup and you'll get announcements about the chats....
Webmama_Tina: Please join the Mommy Chats egroup at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mommychats  to receive notices about upcoming chats and changes to Mommy Chats.
sanguinespeed: thank you
Webmama_Tina: also, mamas, make sure to click on those banners and buttons and check out the advertiser's sites!
Webmama_Tina: they are all mamas like you! :)
mr_quack: Must go.  Juliet is trying to impale herself with the umbrella.  Great chat.
kristenandmadeleine: bye!
Webmama_Tina: help stay at home moms stay home! :)
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Webmama_Tina: lol  mr_quack
Webmama_Tina: i'll post the link to that article to the mommychats egroup once i find it...also to the bottom of the chat transcript once its up
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'll need to sign off soon, but since this chat had an official title including myths and facts, I thought I would share a few myths about maternal stress and depression.
Webmama_Tina: the you should be happy" article"
Webmama_Tina: ok cynthia...we're on casual chatting now...but i can include this in the transcript too if you like...sounds interesting! :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: Good mothers never get stressed or depressed. Fact: Good mothers can and do get stressed and depressed.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Sure, Tina. You can include this in the transcript.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: Because depression is a common response to chronic stress, it doesn't need treatment. Fact: Depression is harmful to mothers, fathers, and their children.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: Medication is always/never needed for depression. Fact: Medication is sometimes needed for depression.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: People who take medications for depression can never stop taking them. Fact: People can and do temporarily take medications for depression.
MCatLvr: I have taken meds 2 seperate times for ppd and no longer need them :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: Breastfeeding mothers must wean before taking an antidepressant. Fact: The vast majority of medications, including antidepressants, do not require a breastfeeding mother to wean.
kristenandmadeleine: I was soo afraid of taking meds that I went through it with no meds.  I probably should have been on something
MCatLvr: if i hadnt taken meds i prolly wouldnt still be here :(
MCatLvr: i waited till dd was 3mo before going to dr tho cause of the fear that i wouldnt be able to bfed and take them
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Myth: Only crazy people get help from mental health professionals. Fact: Working with a mental health professional is a sign of wisdom, strength, courage, and commitment to yourself and your family.
kristenandmadeleine: I was lucky that I can and could pinpoint the whole cause of my anxiety.
kristenandmadeleine: I knew what triggered, but trying to stop thinking about it was hard haha
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: All of these myths can and do pose real barriers to mothers who need help for depression or anxiety or posttraumatic stress....
MCatLvr: ppd unfortunately seems to run in my family
MCatLvr: but most just dont talk about it until after i went thru it
MCatLvr: my aunt decided to not have any more kids because of it :(
kristenandmadeleine: i am sure my mother had it and wont tell me
kristenandmadeleine: i think that is why she was so insistent on me having a section.  she had this whole thing that my birth and breastfeeding would go just like hers.  my birth was similiar, but i wanted to breastfeed more than anything else. and given the rough start
MCatLvr: my mom had it very bad with her first she would have spells were she couldn't move
kristenandmadeleine: i have had a picture perfect nursing relationship
kristenandmadeleine: i had that too.  i would sit on the couch with the baby, frozen
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Another big myth is: You can pour water from an empty bucket. Fact: You can't pour water from an empty bucket. But you can pour water from a full one. This is my analogy for all the giving, and giving, and giving that women do as mothers. If their buckets aren't getting filled back up through support from others and self-care, they just can't keep on giving.
Webmama_Tina: FOUND IT!! http://www.plus-size-pregnancy.org/CSANDVBAC/shouldbegrateful.htm
kristenandmadeleine: looking back i don't know how i didn't kill myself.
Webmama_Tina: it was grateful, not thankful
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Not talking about depression certainly doesn't help. Many women have such a sense of shame and failure, and their talking is so often met with some kind of discounting response, it can be very hard to keep trying to find someone who can listen.
kristenandmadeleine: Cynthia, i know my ppd stemmed from my birth.  no one knew how to deal with it.  i was just told to get over it.  be glad she was healthy.  but still to this day i think about her birth.  the seconds before they knocked me out and the hours before
kristenandmadeleine: i could see her haunt me
kristenandmadeleine: how can i approach accepting her birth and being able to move on. i know ill never be okay with it.  but it happened and i know i need to accept it
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Women cannot just get over" traumatic birth experiences, grief over breastfeeding loss, postpartum depression.... Acceptance is very hard when no one is letting a mother talk about what she needs to talk about. It's like people expect grieving mothers to flip some kind of switch. But grieving well and recovering from depression and trauma are processes of healing. There is no switch to flip."
kristenandmadeleine: exactly!  It got to a point with my boyfriend that he said it was all we talked about.  it was hard to make him understand that it happened to me.  i almost died.  our baby almost died.  i have to talk about it
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: When a mother is struggling with recovery from a traumatic birth experience, working with a mental health professional with experience and knowledge in this area can be very helpful. Friends and family may simply not be able to give the kind and amount of listening that a mother needs. They may be grieving or vicariously traumatized themselves.
kristenandmadeleine: i love it when people tell you but its all in your head"  of course it is!  Depression isn't given it's due because it's not like a broken leg.  You can't see depression on an xray.  It doesn't show up in a blood test"
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: When I give presentations on maternal stress and depression, I use a broken leg as an analogy!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Like a broken leg, depression has identifiable symptoms and known effective treatment. Both are incapacitating. Both cause pain, are not due to character flaws, can't be healed through willpower, are not uncommon, take time to heal, necessitate help from others, ....
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: And neither one of them is in your head"!"
kristenandmadeleine: i know
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: At least not in the sense that people mean it's all in your head.""
kristenandmadeleine: i come from a family of women who had sections and formula fed.  I am the only women who has breastfed beyond 6 weeks and I plan to let her wean.  On top of my ppd I had family members question my milk tell me to just give her a bottle like a proper baby""
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: They are both real experiences, that cannot be conjured up out of our imaginations.
kristenandmadeleine: exactly
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Pretty tough environment to try breastfeed in and give birth vaginally in. You are pioneering without role models or guidance in your own family.
kristenandmadeleine: I was made out to be a loon because not being awake for her birth, not seeing her for 17 hours was alright because she was safe.  They didn't take in account that I was devastated that they saw her before I did.  I had family members come in grab my arm
kristenandmadeleine: for the baby's number and go down to the nicu and hold her before me
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Sigh.
kristenandmadeleine: I was never asked if I was alright.  No one but my uncle  (who was told to shut up by my aunt) made it a point to yell at a nurse for me to see her.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I'm shaking my head, too.
kristenandmadeleine: sorry for that rant.  haha its been a while since i talked about it
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Ranting can be very healing. : )
arianamama: kristenandmadeleine I'm so sorry you've gone through all this.
kristenandmadeleine: the only thing I am grateful for was that i knew my body to know when to beg for intervention.  Thank god my section was needed.
kristenandmadeleine: it's alright.  i would do it again for her though.  in a heartbeat.  breastfeeding got me through it.  And people wonder why I get soo upset when there is wrong information.  When mothers are pressured to formula feed.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Your experience is, sadly, shared by other mothers. Health care providers certainly need more training on the emotional needs of women after birth, and especially, after a traumatic birth.
kristenandmadeleine: it's made me want to change my whole career and become an lc
kristenandmadeleine: I know!  My midwife was the only one who thought of me.  she held my hand throughout the whole surgery, even when i was knocked out.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Bless her heart.
kristenandmadeleine: i know.
kristenandmadeleine: She sat with me in the nicu while I cried my eyes out
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Well, ladies, I need to go. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this important topic. I wish you all well.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Bless her heart, again.
kristenandmadeleine: Thanks soo much!
kristenandmadeleine: It's nice to know that there is someone out there advocating
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're very welcome.