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Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor, international board certified lactation consultant, author, researcher, and speaker. Through her private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting (LLC) she offers a blend of psychological and lactation services to women and health care providers, in person and by phone. In this chat, Cynthia will talk about grieving perinatal losses, including miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, stillbirth, and newborn death.
 www.mothering.com
6/29/06

18 mamas in attendance

All Mothering Sponsored chats with Cynthia:
4/27/06  5/25/06  6/29/06  8/23/06  9/28/06  10/26/06

 

12:05:01 Webmama_Tina today we are happy to have cynthia good mojab with us again!
12:05:13 Cynthia_Good_Mojab I'm glad to be here, Tina.
12:05:22 Webmama_Tina Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor, international board certified lactation consultant, author, researcher, and speaker. Through her private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting (LLC) she offers a blend of psychological and lactation services to women and health care providers, in person and by phone. In this chat, Cynthia will talk about grieving perinatal losses, including miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, stillbirth, and newborn death.
12:05:32 Webmama_Tina anything you want to add, cynthia?
12:06:45 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes, Tina. I've known many women who have experienced a pregnancy loss or infant death and have not found enough information and support--even basic recognition of their loss. Because of this, grieving such a loss is made that much harder.
12:07:17 Cynthia_Good_Mojab That's one reason the opportunity to have a Chat like this is so important. I'm very glad that we are able to talk today.
12:08:06 Webmama_Tina out of curiosity, how many of us here have suffered the loss of a child?
12:08:09 Webmama_Tina *raises hand*
12:08:14 Cynthia_Good_Mojab I'm ready for questions any time, Tina.
12:08:55 Stayseeliz I've had an early miscarriage. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be.
12:09:10 DuckyTate I have 4 children and I had 4 miscarriages I did everything I could to recover and grive on my own including memorials to our lost children, every year the anniversaries of my losses get harder not easier.  Is it true that some Mothers never truy recover?
12:09:17 Webmama_Tina please post a single question mark at any time, mamas, and i will add you to the queu...i believe ducky was first
12:09:20 ilovezoeystar ?
12:09:41 DuckyTate I thought I was first also sorry to casue a bother
12:09:56 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters (after ducky):  ilovezoeystar
12:10:03 Webmama_Tina ducky, you were first, you're fine :)
12:10:08 DuckyTate ok
12:10:20 DuckyTate Well apart from my spelling typos!
12:10:43 Webmama_Tina :) no worries
12:10:54 DuckyTate lol
12:11:21 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Grief is the natural, healthy, human process that we experience after a loss. Grief can be stopped, however, when something about our circumstances doesn't give us permission" to grieve."
12:11:58 Cynthia_Good_Mojab For example, when most of a woman's time and energy is being spent caring for young children, it can be hard to find time and energy to grieve well.
12:12:43 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Also, sometimes grief becomes more complicated because too many losses happened in too short a time. Grieving one loss can feel overwhelming. Grieving several losses even more so.
12:12:46 Webmama_Tina for those joining us late.... Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
12:13:06 DuckyTate In my recent reading I found a claim that the DNA of every child carried is inprinted on the Mothers brain and that they are always a part of you even if they are gone from you. Could this be why after all these years it still feel like raw pain?
12:14:25 Stayseeliz ?
12:17:19 Cynthia_Good_Mojab I am not familiar with that claim, however, I know that women do not forget the children they have lost. When grief is well supported, the intensity of the pain gradually, but in a very irregular sort of way, decreases. But this does not mean that we never miss our children, wish we could have shared more of life with them, etc. Anniversary grief is common and normal. Bereaved mothers often feel an upsurge of pain, longing, and sorrow on the anniversary of an expected due date, birth, death, ... and on special family days that mothers wish they could share with their missing children.
12:18:23 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Grief counseling and grief therapy can be invaluable sources of support and healing--especially when bereaved mothers are not finding enough support in their own network of friends and family....
12:19:29 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Is the raw pain that you feel constant, DuckyTate? Or is it more like it increases and decreases?
12:20:39 DuckyTate I miss each of them each and every day, and I feel like I am not doing enough because I can not care for those children as well.
12:21:58 Cynthia_Good_Mojab I hear how much you miss your children. Are you saying that you wish so much that you could be giving the children you have lost the same kind of daily love and care you are able to give your living children?
12:23:04 DuckyTate Yes. I have 3 boys and I girl but not being able to love and raise all 4 boy and all 4 girls leave me feeling like what ever I do is simply not enough. No matter how full my life looks I still feel empty.
12:24:46 Cynthia_Good_Mojab You deeply miss the children you have lost. You feel an empty place in your life that you wish they were there to fill.
12:27:04 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Sometimes it can help to write to a child who was lost--annually or at different times during a year--expressing what we feel, what we wish we could be doing with them and for them at that time. Talking about the same kind of thing with friend or at a grief support group or with a counselor can be very helpful. Women need outlets for their grief.
12:29:07 Webmama_Tina i made a blog
12:29:48 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  Stayseeliz
12:30:06 Cynthia_Good_Mojab That's great, Tina. A blog is one way to honor our experience and our child's life and death. A way to create information and companionship for another mother who may be feeling alone.
12:30:49 Webmama_Tina helps to keep him alive in other's minds too...
12:31:01 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes.
12:31:53 Webmama_Tina are we ready for the next question?
12:32:02 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes.
12:32:13 Webmama_Tina stayseeliz
12:32:19 Webmama_Tina you're up mama!
12:33:18 Stayseeliz How can we help others understand what we're going through in grieving for our loss. My miscarriage was just 3 weeks ago and it seems like everyone just expects life to have gotten back to normal. I feel like I'm the only one grieving for this baby.
12:33:47 Cynthia_Good_Mojab That's a very good question.
12:34:28 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Sometimes we are able to communicate successfully with those around us that we're grieving. Sometimes we have to look for understanding and support elsewhere.
12:35:00 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Sometimes those around us are also grieving and aren't able to support us as well as they might if they weren't also grieving.
12:36:03 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Straightforward statements about what we are experiencing, sharing a chapter written for family members in a book on perinatal loss and infant death, or sharing a website with the person from whom we're hoping to gain support can help.
12:37:37 Stayseeliz What are good books on perinatal loss? I honestly haven't found much.
12:38:03 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Sometimes we need more than those around us are capable of giving, either because they are grieving, too, or because they just don't understand what this kind of loss is like. Support is still essential and women can find it from support groups (local or online), in books, from a counselor, etc. If you can't find support in your own circle, keep looking because it is essential for grieving well.
12:39:01 Cynthia_Good_Mojab The Resource section of my website has a variety of resources, including books, on pregnancy loss and infant death that women may find helpful. www.lifecirclecc.com
12:40:07 Webmama_Tina there's truly nothing like sharing w/one who's been there too
12:40:24 Webmama_Tina MDC's loss board is good
12:40:51 Cynthia_Good_Mojab This is so true, Tina. Books can be very validating. But talking with someone who is not afraid of your grief and who can be with you and listen to you is priceless.
12:41:07 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Is there another question?
12:41:34 Stayseeliz Thank you!
12:41:35 alaskamom could I ask one?
12:41:37 Webmama_Tina i don't have anyone in queue....
12:41:41 Webmama_Tina yes alaska
12:41:48 alaskamom I have had 4 miscarriages. Just gave birth last week. 5th try.
12:41:51 alaskamom My question...
12:42:06 Cynthia_Good_Mojab You're welcome. Best wishes with your grieving, Styseelize. I'm so sorry for your loss.
12:42:08 alaskamom I am having a heck of a time with breastfeeding - now have mastitis. I'm terrified that I will lose this opp
12:42:22 alaskamom do my miscarriages have anything to do with my breastfeeding probs now?
12:42:45 alaskamom only feeding on 1 breast - other too swollen hot and hard so pumping.
12:43:06 Cynthia_Good_Mojab What kind of breastfeeding problems, besides mastitis, have you been having?
12:43:22 alaskamom I'm not sure if she is getting enough on left breast only
12:43:33 alaskamom she wants to be on breast 24/7 - but is that just comfort?
12:43:52 alaskamom and of course there is terrible nipple pain but I hear that is normal at first.
12:43:57 alaskamom her latch has been checked and is good.
12:44:26 alaskamom right breast seems to have congeeled milk, cannot pump out more than a few drops at a time
12:44:45 alaskamom this all happened with her latching on very nicely and sucking well
12:44:52 alaskamom so it seems to be me
12:45:02 alaskamom this is day 9
12:45:09 alaskamom problems started day 4
12:47:42 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Newborns commonly nurse frequently and around the clock. This is normal--though not always culturally acceptable! That said,  non-stop nursing can also be a sign that a baby is having a hard time transferring milk. A mother's nipples may be somewhat tender early in a feeding and soon after birth, but if the pain persists throughout the feeding and goes on and on after birth, it's a signal that something needs changing. Latch can look great and still not be. Sometimes folks don't know to also check what the nipple looks like immediately after a feeding. If the nipple has a white or red compression stripe across the tip or is angled somewhat like a new tube of lipstick, then it has been compressed against the hard palate and latch was not deep enough--no matter how good it looked from the outside.
12:48:21 alaskamom ok, chalk that up as another problem - lipstick shape and white ridge across it
12:48:39 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Sometimes women who fertility challenges also have breastfeeding challenges because of hormonal imbalances (e.g., polycystic ovarian syndrome).
12:49:31 Cynthia_Good_Mojab It sounds like you need a good long visit with an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and/or a La Leche League Leader to help you sort this all out.
12:50:18 alaskamom I've been in touch with LLL and they have helped a little. Also have seen 2 different lactation consultants at hospital - 2nd one is awesome. And reading Jack Newman breastfeeding book.
12:51:09 alaskamom all 4 miscarriages happened around 6-7 weeks - I attribute it to drop in progesterone because this time, we boosted my progesterone. I will keep checking with my consultant.
12:51:15 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Jack's book is excellent. If you've found a good LC, you could keep working with her to continue addressing these challenges.
12:51:33 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Best wishes to you.
12:51:42 alaskamom thanks. I've had enough losses. Just didn't want to lose out on this.
12:52:06 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes, breastfeeding can become even more valued in the context of so much loss.
12:52:30 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Is there another question, Tina?
12:52:44 Webmama_Tina well i'd actually like to ask one
12:52:53 Webmama_Tina what do you suggest for the siblings?
12:53:04 Webmama_Tina as far as what is shared with them...how much and what ages?
12:53:18 Webmama_Tina my feeling has always been that its a part of her reality, so i shared it with her
12:53:28 Webmama_Tina i wanted her to know why mommy was so sad and angry and out of it
12:53:45 Webmama_Tina we talked about it a lot and she drew lots of pictures...she was 3.5yrs when we lost her brother at birth
12:55:19 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Children need to be able to make sense of the world around them and the people in it, otherwise they can feel anxious and unsettled. So when a mother is grieving, her children need her to be honest with them so that they don't end up getting mixed signals that are confusing: They see Mama crying, but she says she's fine and nothing's wrong.
12:55:47 Webmama_Tina she's now 5.5yrs and i feel like she's really dealt well with her grief...has fully processed it all, and very healthy way
12:55:55 Cynthia_Good_Mojab What we say to our children depends on their age and understanding....
12:56:22 Webmama_Tina yes, i worry also about her blaming herself if it wasn't made clear to her
12:56:40 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Some books on pregnancy loss and infant death give parents some guidance about this--Do's and Don'ts that we might not think about otherwise.
12:56:45 Webmama_Tina i know children tend to blame themselves for things...think they are bad or something...so i wanted to make sure i was very clear to her that my sadness was NOT her fault
12:58:07 Webmama_Tina it was very interesting to me that her grief stages were practically opposite of ours
12:58:11 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Children grieve, too, because they were also expecting and imagining a sibling. Now they have to adjust their thoughts and feelings to the fact that their sibling died. And, you're right, Tina, children can sometimes believe that they did something that caused the baby to die, like plopping down too hard on Mama one day or thinking in one moment that they don't want the baby to come because they want to stay the baby.
12:58:21 Webmama_Tina when my dh and i were very raw in the beginning, she almost seemed oblivious
12:58:46 Webmama_Tina then after we got to the next level of dealing a little better...that's when she seemed to hit her raw point and acted out and cried alot more and talked more about baelin