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Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Judith Lothian and Charlotte DeVries

Judith and Charlotte are the authors of The Official Lamaze Guide: Giving Birth with Confidence and maintain a blog about normal birth at birthwithconfidence.blogs.lamaze.org. The topic of their chat is "Building Confidence and Erasing Fear in Childbirth".

Judith Lothian is a nurse and childbirth educator with more than 30 years of experience. She is an associate professor at Seton Hall University College of Nursing and is a member of Lamaze International’s Board of Directors. Dr. Lothian is a nationally recognized speaker on birth and breastfeeding, a columnist for The Journal of Perinatal Education, a mother of five and grandmother of six.

Charlotte DeVries is a journalist, past president of Lamaze International's Board of Directors, and a current Board Advisor. She works alongside her husband, a sociologist, on childbirth and midwifery research and education. She also writes a newspaper column on life as a working mother of three.

www.mothering.com
2/1/06

27 mothers in attendance

 

21:04:03 Webmama_Tina tonite we are very pleased to have judith and charlotte as our speakers...
21:04:20 Webmama_Tina why don't you 2 introduce yourselves and tell us your background and expertise?
21:04:35 Webmama_Tina and when you're done please let me know that you are ready to start answering questions...
21:05:02 Webmama_Tina and mama chatters...y'all can start posting a single question mark (?) if you would like to get in line to ask charlotte and judith a question :)
21:05:23 charlottedevries Hi, I'm Charlotte, in Ann Arbor, MI. My three kids are grown, and I'm still in love with issues of pregnancy and birth.
21:05:28 charlottedevries I'm ready!
21:05:58 Webmama_Tina don't forget to share books and links :)
21:06:10 Webmama_Tina if you type with the www in the front then it will be clickable
21:06:11 lothian Hi. We're delighted to be with you tonight. I'm a nurse and a passionate childbirth educator. I also teach nursing, do some research, and a lot of writing. I have five children....four grown and a bonus baby who is in her senior year of high school. And I have six granddaughters!
21:06:30 charlottedevries www.birthwithconfidence.org
21:06:51 lothian And we also have a blog. birthwithconfidence.blogs
21:07:10 lothian Ready for questions
21:07:18 Rosie ?
21:07:24 Webmama_Tina ok rosie, you're up first!
21:07:46 Webmama_Tina and don't mind me, mamas, as i keep the peace and post welcomes as we get latecomers ;(
21:07:50 Webmama_Tina woops ;)
21:08:01 Rosie I was looking at your blog (which is great!)  It didn't really fit with my understanding of Lamaze.  It was much more home birth friendly, etc.
21:08:11 earthmamato4Deb ?
21:08:13 Rosie I guess my question is - is Lamaze pro-home birth these days?
21:08:19 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  earthmamato4Deb
21:09:04 lothian Lamaze is quite different than it was in the 60's when we were just beginning to reclaim birth. Lamaze is all about normal birth, and homebirth fits right in.
21:09:14 charlottedevries Lamaze is opening its arms to women's choices, and lots of women are making the choice for home birth, as I did, in making the choice for home birth for two out of my three babies.
21:09:47 lothian And my daughter has had 2 homebirths....and all my grandbabies were caught by midwives!
21:10:13 momofmany That's a great statistic!
21:10:25 fterry13 ?
21:10:27 mhedlund ?
21:10:28 charlottedevries In the Netherlands, where a lot of my husband's research was done regarding midwives, about 32% of the births there happen at home.
21:10:36 lothian In our book there is a wonderful chapter on choosing a place of birth. It is very pro out of hospital birth
21:10:37 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  earthmamato4Deb   fterry13    mhedlund
21:10:49 Rosie what's the rule on follow-up questions?
21:11:01 marywho ?
21:11:27 Webmama_Tina well since we already have people in line for questions, i'll ask that you get back in line...just to be fair for those waiting
21:11:34 Webmama_Tina i'll add you after marywho :)
21:11:35 Rosie no problem.!
21:11:49 Webmama_Tina earthmamato4Deb you're up!
21:11:51 wendylynne ?
21:11:59 earthmamato4Deb I am a LCCE too and actually the coordinator at a small local hospital
21:12:05 Webmama_Tina judith and charlotte...when you're done answering a question just say something like next question""
21:12:23 charlottedevries Thanks, Webmama. Duly noted.
21:12:25 lothian Will do.
21:12:28 earthmamato4Deb It is kind of weird and ironic as a huge homebirth advocate, but am hoping to make change
21:12:39 fterry13 hpw do you teach in an area where the c-section rate has gone from 17% to39% and epidural rates are about 50%? the doctors are interventive and couples are more willing to follow their recommendations over CBE's.
21:12:50 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  fterry13, mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne
21:13:17 earthmamato4Deb I have been able to start a natural birthing class and really want to get some hard stats to show that it can help
21:13:23 Webmama_Tina fterry13,  earthmamato4Deb is currently up....you're next! :)
21:13:37 Webmama_Tina currently up:  earthmamato4Deb....upcoming chatters:  fterry13, mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne
21:13:55 earthmamato4Deb What are some of your best ways to help new parents with fears regarding birthing, esp in the hospital
21:14:00 charlottedevries We're hoping that our book can be a beginning in a change in the landscape--that women will gain enough confidence to bring about change in the way birth is dones.
21:14:03 charlottedevries done.
21:14:28 lothian I applaud your persistence in helping to create change...it's a really hard job. And it is discouraging for many of us. But many educators are having success doing natural" classes."
21:14:32 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  fterry13, mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne
21:14:52 lothian do you want to add more
21:15:00 charlottedevries *thinking*
21:15:26 earthmamato4Deb :)
21:15:51 charlottedevries Keep reminding women that their bodies are a perfect design for giving birth without medical intervention. In fact, intervention often messes with this perfect design.
21:16:39 lothian Help new parents with fears...we could go on forever. I think the first thing is honesty. Helping them see what the issues are, that much of what they fear are not things to be feared. And lots of what they should be afraid of...like the cesarean rate...they are not.
21:16:40 charlottedevries This education has to start with our children (boys AND girls!)--as midwife Ina May Gaskin says, Our bodies are not lemons"."
21:17:18 charlottedevries With confidence, with advocacy, we can help women overcome these fears.
21:17:28 charlottedevries Next question, if Judy's ready.
21:17:30 earthmamato4Deb I absolutely agree, one of the things we discuss in class is our societal beliefs regarding birth and how those shape our expectations
21:17:35 earthmamato4Deb thanks
21:17:44 Webmama_Tina did that answer fterry13 too?
21:17:47 lothian I think that women's greatest fear is safety. And they go to the hospital thinking they will be safer there. But it's not true.
21:17:57 earthmamato4Deb ?
21:18:13 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  fterry13, mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb
21:18:22 Webmama_Tina if not, then fterry13 is up next
21:18:29 fterry13 we teach what they're saying, but they still follow their doctor's recommendations.
21:18:42 fterry13 do i repeat my original question?
21:18:59 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb
21:19:04 Webmama_Tina yes go for it fterry13
21:19:08 Webmama_Tina up now: fterry13
21:19:31 charlottedevries This really is a cultural problem, accepting the doctor's word as the final word.
21:19:42 lothian Because we have been brought up to trust the doctor as the repository of wisdom related to health. Knowing the simple story of birth and the history of how maternity care evolved in the US can help women understand the issues.
21:19:55 fterry13 with c-section rates going from 17% to 39%  and epidural rates of abou 50%, how can we encourage patients to be better advocates for themselves?
21:20:16 charlottedevries We have to find ways to connect with what women already believe.  For example, a belief in healthy eating, exercise, the value of nature, and show them how natural birth is consistent with these beliefs.
21:20:58 lothian First women need to untangle the issues and learn to negotiate the maze of modern obstetrics...and to do that they need confidence in themselves, in their body's good design, and they need to trust birth.
21:21:05 storkbytes ?
21:21:13 charlottedevries While some women think c-sections give them more control over their birth, in fact they lose control and subject themselves to a number of complications.
21:22:11 storkbytes What are the best ways to connect with women?  Some don't come to classes.
21:22:17 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb,  storkbytes
21:22:23 lothian I keep going back to the fact that women don't have the basic, simple knowledge they need about birth and nature's plan to be able to make informed decisions. We think our book will help. It's simple.
21:22:27 Webmama_Tina storkbytes right now its fterry13's turn
21:22:39 Webmama_Tina your turn will be after earthmamato4Deb :)
21:22:47 charlottedevries As LCCEs, can they ask their mothers, Look, you're going through the trouble of taking care of your body during this pregnancy--careful with diet and exercise and reading--do you want to hand your body over, unquestioningly, to a medical system?"."
21:22:59 lgrubin ?
21:23:03 Webmama_Tina Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called. THANKYOU! :)"
21:23:13 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb,  storkbytes,  lgrubin
21:23:28 KeysMama ?
21:23:47 lothian The questions we are asking really all get down to....helping women be confident that they already know how to give birth.
21:23:47 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb,  storkbytes,  lgrubin,  KeysMama
21:23:48 charlottedevries Next question.
21:24:01 Webmama_Tina mhedlund, you're up! :)
21:24:06 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  mhedlund,  marywho,  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb,  storkbytes,  lgrubin,  KeysMama
21:24:17 mhedlund I withdraw my question.
21:24:39 Webmama_Tina ok, marywho, you're up!
21:25:50 Webmama_Tina lets give her a sec...she might be typing
21:25:51 marywho thank you.  Comment, I had my 2nd son at home in the 80's and felt far more confident than in hospital.  Part of the problem is selling natural" birth to the medical community."
21:25:53 Webmama_Tina ah ha
21:26:10 marywho my coworkers are sceptical!
21:26:16 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters:  Rosie,  wendylynne,  callanro,  earthmamato4Deb,  storkbytes,  lgrubin,  KeysMama
21:26:21 charlottedevries This was exactly my experience, as well.
21:26:33 lothian It's really selling it to women. The research is clear. Birth out of the hospital is safe. Women need to know this.
21:26:40 charlottedevries Remember, by training, doctors see birth as pathological.
21:27:27 marywho nurses do too
21:27:28 Webmama_Tina Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
21:27:32 lothian And it's also selling midwives and doulas to women.
21:28:28 charlottedevries But often, when doctors see home birth, they are amazed at its beauty and safety.  For example, it was working with midwives that convinced Marshall Klaus of the need for more attention to parent-infant bonding.
21:28:41 charlottedevries Next question.
21:28:45 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: Rosie, wendylynne, callanro, earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama
21:28:49 lothian I spend so much time teaching my nursing students to see birth as normal and natural. And then they go out to the local hospitals and come back with the horror stories. If they cry over what they see I give them as.
21:28:53 Webmama_Tina Rosie, you're up again!
21:29:00 Rosie i loved your blog about your granddaughter witnessing her little sister being born.  It was so interesting how the different age children had such different experiences.  Do you think there is an ideal age to witness a birth?  What is too young?
21:29:40 Rosie My daugher will be 2 1/2 when the next one comes.  It's hard to know what to expect and how to prepare her for witnessing it.  I don't want to have fixed expectations about what she'll get out of it.
21:30:35 charlottedevries I don't think there's any such thing as too young". But you have to listen to your child. My middle child did not want to see the birth of his younger sister. But, later, he was very interested in holding her, seeing her, and pulling on her ear."
21:30:45 lothian I have no idea. I suspect that when all births were at home, children decided for themselves whether they wanted to be present, and mother's had an intuitive feel for what their involvement would be. I think we make too much of a fuss about it all....the vesitiges of thinking medical model perhaps.
21:31:08 charlottedevries Good answer, Judith!
21:31:20 Rosie we're planning a home birth so hopefully she can decide for her self in her own comfortable surroundings!
21:31:28 lothian And witnessing birth in a hospital is frightening, and totally different from at home.
21:32:17 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: wendylynne, callanro, earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama
21:32:28 lothian I'm frightened witnessing or participating in a typical hospital birth!
21:32:42 Rosie LOL
21:32:43 charlottedevries There's a beautiful website out there, but I can't remember the URL right now, that shows a home birth with three children present during the ebb and flow of labor.
21:33:05 fterry13 ?
21:33:08 Rosie i've seen it!  I think mothering has a link
21:33:23 lothian I think that women who give birth at home have to become much more vocal...telling your stories over and over again.
21:33:30 charlottedevries But you have to talk to your children beforehand about what to expect.  I told my oldest daughter that mommy would be making weird noises, and that there would be dark stuff between her legs! :) And that everything would be okay. She was 5 at the time.
21:33:36 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: wendylynne, callanro, earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13
21:34:04 lothian another question?
21:34:08 wendylynne I live in the NYC area, Judith. (and am looking to become Lamaze certified).  What hospitals can you rec that are BABY and MOM friendly.  (ie, not separating them after birth for extended times)?
21:34:26 wendylynne Here around the city?
21:34:31 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: callanro, earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13
21:36:39 lothian Hard question. NY is not exactly progressive. The birthing center at Roosevelt/St. Luke's is very good. They have an incredible maternal/child nursing director who is making big changes....she told her nurses.....when you separate mothers and babies you do HARM and I know you don't want to harm your patients. Therefore, all mothers and babies will be kept together. And her nurses have been wonderful. They have me coming to do workshops to the whole staff on evidence based maternity care. Debby  Bingham is the director.
21:36:41 wendylynne I just coached a birth at a very reputable hospital in Manhattan and the post birth procedures made me want to cry.
21:37:11 wendylynne Glad to hear about Roosevelt.
21:37:48 lothian I hear what you are saying. How babies are treated is more troubling than how women are treated. It's horrific.
21:38:25 wendylynne ?
21:38:34 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: callanro, earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne
21:38:37 charlottedevries Somehow I think an adult can take it" better than a baby. But who's to say? This kind of treatment is horrific for both mom and baby."
21:39:04 lothian There's a wonderful birthing center at Bellevue with a 2% cesarean rate...all the patients would be considered high risk too.
21:40:06 lothian Unfortunately, Bellevue does not accept private insurance so many women don't have the opportunity to receive the wonderful care they provide.
21:40:34 charlottedevries Next question, when Judith's ready.
21:40:37 Webmama_Tina callanro, you're up
21:40:44 callanro I am a BSN Nursing student..hi..no children yet. Curious how different birthing positions are encouraged in a clinical setting. Once the woman is hooked to the fetal monitor...they are not able to walk around and such. Is there autonomy in the hospitals on
21:40:50 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne
21:41:13 callanro ...birthing positions...how much choice does the patient have?
21:41:49 charlottedevries Here's where a doula or a advocate in the room with a laboring woman is so valuable.
21:42:14 lothian Not sure what you mean by autonomy....can a nurse make decisions about these things??? Absolutely, I believe that nurses should be patient advocates. And women should be able to make the decision of whether she wants to be hooked up and tied down...or not.
21:42:28 charlottedevries It's often the voice of the attendant that can add to the voice of the mother in getting the caregiver to back off with monitoring or making the woman stay in bed. Often it's a matter of being vocal enough.
21:42:53 callanro Are the hospitals (staff) receptive or do they find it instrusive...(Autonomy=was referring to pt)
21:43:22 lothian That said, it's really hard for women to buck the system. Finding a wonderful nurse who helps them get what they want can make all the difference.
21:43:43 callanro thanks...great site
21:43:55 lothian Hospitals, and most nurses, find it intrusive. But we can't worry about that if we are going to change birth.
21:44:34 charlottedevries I would say that this is not the hospital's birth, it's your birth, so if it's intrusive, so be it. It might be  helpful to give your moms evidence of the value of moving in labor that they can show to their caregiver.  Nothing like using a little EBM (evidence-based medicine) to change provider behavior.
21:45:08 lothian Ah, autonomy of the patient. Yes, women have the right to consent or refusal.
21:45:14 charlottedevries It's so great that Judith and I are saying essentially the same things.
21:45:19 callanro Oh..I agree...it just seems overwhelming to challenge an entire system...but needed. I agree!
21:46:03 sljohns I think we need to do a better job of educating women early on.  Most are not even thinking about birth position until they are ready to deliver.  By this time it is too late to find a health care provider that will entertain a normal birth.
21:46:10 lothian You are right...it is a huge task. But we, and you, are not alone. Each in our own way, one women, one baby at a time WILL change things!
21:46:20 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: earthmamato4Deb, storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne
21:46:33 Webmama_Tina 14min left in the caht
21:46:34 Webmama_Tina chat
21:46:42 lothian Ready for a new question?
21:46:53 Webmama_Tina earthmamato4Deb, you're up again!
21:47:05 charlottedevries I think about Judy's granddaughters' births--one sister watching another sister be born. A couple of hours later, she reenacts what she just saw, and is nursing her little baby doll.
21:47:23 tamaralynn ?
21:47:28 earthmamato4Deb In my delicate" position of doing my best to help women who have already chosen to have a hospital birth, I find myself needing to find a way to connect with docs to get them to support us and natural birth...any specific suggestions on ways you have foun"
21:47:32 charlottedevries This is how culture gets changed, by our little girls (and boys) embracing what's normal.
21:47:35 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:48:02 earthmamato4Deb found to be taken seriously by the, as not adversarial or however you spell that!
21:48:18 earthmamato4Deb by them, sorry typing too fast1
21:48:58 charlottedevries We shouldn't see doctors as the enemies. That just creates hostility. We need to come along side of them, understand their training, and use things they already believe in to change their minds. This where EBM is so important.
21:49:48 lothian I have been rather unsuccessful in changing docs attitudes. But I do know that presenting the evidence...solid research...is probably the only thing that will have a fighting chance. It's objective, not adversarial. Although I did Grand Rounds once and when I cited the research a Doc said he didn't believe any of it. How do you repond to that?  I rolled my eyes!
21:50:27 earthmamato4Deb this has been my experience too, they refute it with their own opposite studies or whatever
21:50:36 charlottedevries :)) That's good! This is where the culture of medicine overwhelms the science of medicine.
21:50:51 lothian I think we need to get to women earlier so they can choose providers and birth settings that protect normal birth.
21:51:11 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:51:22 sljohns Yeah, my point exactly.
21:51:38 charlottedevries I still believe that if we can get a doc to witness a natural normal birth the doc's mindset can be changed.
21:51:48 lothian The studies in support of normal birth and the dire consequences of interferring without medical indication...can not be refuted.
21:51:55 charlottedevries Next question. Lot of people in the queue.
21:52:09 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:52:15 Webmama_Tina storkbytes, you're up!
21:52:18 lothian And, I do agree with Charlotte. Seeing a normal birth is transforming even for the most stubborn.
21:52:59 storkbytes OK!  I see all of us reaching women who have access to doula or birth class information.  How do we reach women who have this inate wisdom but aren't aware of their choices?
21:53:16 Webmama_Tina 7min left
21:54:11 charlottedevries Lamaze Int. is working on a way to get third-party reimbursement for childbirth education classes--this will help for people who are unable or unwilling to pay for classes.
21:54:40 lothian Well, I'm getting overwhelmed. I think we need to do a much better job telling our stories of normal birth everywhere....in the malls, in local papers, at the park. And we need blogs, and books.
21:55:03 charlottedevries Next question.
21:55:14 lgrubin Isn't our job really about helping women give birth the way they see themselves giving birth, rather than convincing them that there is only one right way-natural birth.  As doulas, aren't here to support whatever comes naturally to that individual woman
21:55:25 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: storkbytes, lgrubin, KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:55:28 Webmama_Tina woops
21:55:34 Webmama_Tina sorry, Igrubin, you're up!
21:55:58 lgrubin I threw my question in there...
21:55:59 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:56:02 lothian I think that women who have wonderful, empowering birth stories...stories that involve choices...sometimes hard choices...are often reluctant to tell their stories...Not wanting friends and family to feel bad if they had different experiences. We have to get past that.
21:56:22 Webmama_Tina yup i missed it, sorry...doing too many things at once here, lol
21:56:38 lgrubin Want me to restate my question?
21:56:49 Webmama_Tina no i think they got it
21:56:51 Webmama_Tina :)
21:57:03 charlottedevries I agree. But we have to understand that culture can corrupt women's choices. Just like it does for young women who starve themselve to meet an ideal body type. If American women think that birth includes their epidural" and "their c-section" that might seem what's natural to them, but it may not be what's best."
21:57:23 charlottedevries Next question.
21:57:28 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: KeysMama,  fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
21:57:33 Webmama_Tina KeysMama you're up!
21:57:41 KeysMama Hi! CCE/CD here.Our Miami hospital= 57.8% c/s rate ( on a good day). The problem I see is that women are NOT seeing the side effects that we warn about. What are some other points I can make to these moms?They love the convenience and feel good AND  :banghead
21:57:50 KeysMama doulas are banned
21:57:54 lothian I agree with Charlotte. The choices that most women are making are not truly informed....they don't have full information at all.
21:58:14 charlottedevries OMG!
21:58:32 charlottedevries It's no wonder that I'm so pro-home birth.
21:59:02 KeysMama as a homebirther myself  I agree, but the homebirth environment in Fla is hostile, so what are some other options??
21:59:11 lothian There are bigger issues with choosing epidurals....women at the moment have no other way to find comfort in labor in most hospitals. The epidural is literally the only thing 'on offer'.  Unless you give birth in a true birthing center or at home.
21:59:53 lothian I think part of the answer is working to change restrictive hospital policies.
22:00:17 charlottedevries Your moms in Florida need to know that recovery from a c-section does not feel good, and that epidurals come with dangers for themselves and the baby.
22:01:41 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: fterry13,  wendylynne,  tamaralynn
22:01:59 charlottedevries next question
22:02:04 Webmama_Tina do you ladies have time to answer the last 3 questions?
22:02:15 lothian I almost feel like we need to make a summary statement. Women need to know the real scoop on all these issues. They need to know the simple, not the medical, story of birth, and they need to know that choosing a midwife, a doula, and birth in a normal birth friendly setting is best for them and their babies.
22:02:20 Webmama_Tina we are at the end of hte hour now, but if you have time we can finish up the last 3...up to you
22:02:31 charlottedevries Yup.
22:02:34 lothian I have time.
22:02:38 Webmama_Tina ok thankyou! :)
22:02:44 Webmama_Tina fterry13, you're up!
22:02:47 fterry13 what about birthplace settings- i worked there and in L&D- our birthplace births were non-interventive and family could be there. took  passion for birth seminar w/teri shilling-  taking lamaze certification exam in april-  do teach non-intervention.
22:02:59 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: wendylynne,  tamaralynn
22:03:19 fterry13 the residents and docs are so intervention oriented it'll take more than 1  normal birth to change them
22:03:34 charlottedevries *heavy sigh*
22:03:42 fterry13 i agree
22:04:28 charlottedevries We are all threatened when what we believe in is challenged.  You have to somehow come alongside of them.
22:04:42 lothian That's the kind of place that should be a model for all hospitals. I know that Biddy Fein, midwife who does births in a collaborative practice at Brigham and Women's in Boston...a huge high risk setting...there are very few restrictive practices and women are up, moving, in tubs, with very little intervention.
22:04:45 charlottedevries Can we encourage more dialog in early pregnancy with the docs? I think this needs to happen.
22:04:53 Webmama_Tina upcoming chatters: wendylynne,  tamaralynn
22:05:08 wendylynne i pass! :)  :) thanks
22:05:38 Webmama_Tina ok tamaralynn
22:05:40 Webmama_Tina you're up
22:05:41 charlottedevries Next question.
22:05:41 tamaralynn As an LCCE I do not often see mothers until they are in their 7th month, how can I at that point help them make wise choices about their care providers without making them fearful?
22:05:57 lothian It is becoming increasingly clear, that when midwives are on staff they make a positive difference with the docs and the hospital practices.
22:05:58 Webmama_Tina this is our last question :)
22:07:13 charlottedevries Lamaze is working to get information to mom's earlier in their pregnancies.  We really hope that moms get our book in the second or third month of pregnancy. What really needs to happen is that the message of confidence wins out over the message of fear.
22:08:29 lothian I think it is our obligation to let them know how their birth will be affected by their choices. And how to decrease the negatives....for instance, getting a doula, staying home for big chuck of labor, going home soon, etc. I don't think being truthful has to be fearful. Most women do NOT have wonderful relationships with their Docs. I wouldn't tell a mother to change providers. But I sure give them the facts, and offer it, gently following their lead, as an option. Even late in the game.
22:09:08 charlottedevries Well-said!
22:09:33 tamaralynn thank you for taking time to answer my question
22:09:58 Webmama_Tina ok i think that's it then! thank you so much for your time, judith and charlotte!
22:09:59 charlottedevries Is that it? Nighty-night. Thanks for the great questions. This has been great fun!
22:10:04 Webmama_Tina transcripts will be up by sunday
22:10:16 fterry13 thanks. this was great!
22:10:19 Webmama_Tina this was a very informative chat! thankyou!!
22:10:21 lothian I would also, even late in the game, recommend our book. It spells it all out simply and easily. And then YOU can help them make choices based on the new information they have received...not just from your mouth. Protects your job!
22:12:35 katieLCCE The book is: The Official Lamaze Guide...Giving Birth With Confidence

 

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