|
13:02:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok today's topic: circumcision/intactivism |
|
13:02:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
Marilyn Fayre Milos, RN, is the founder
and director of the National
Organization of Circumcision Information
Resource Centers (NOCIRC) and
coordinator of the International
Symposia on Circumcision, Sexual
Mutilations, and Genital Integrity. Join
Marilyn for a general chat on
circumcision and intactivism. |
|
13:03:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
i'm so glad to have you back again
marilyn! always an interesting chat with
you! i hope many of us learn many new
things! :) |
|
13:03:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
did you want to add anything to your
intro marilyn? |
|
13:04:31 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks for having me again, Tina. I'm
glad to respond to your questions. Let
me begin by saying I'm a Registered
Nurse, the founder and director of
NOCIRC, and I've been trying for the
past 28 years-- from the day I witnessed
a circumcision -- to end circ |
|
13:04:56 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
umcision of boys, girls, and the genital
cutting of intersex infants and
children. |
|
13:05:41 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Parents have no idea what is done to
infants and children behind closed doors
and, while it's upsetting to learn, the
only way it will stop is for us to talk
about it. |
|
13:05:57 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Questions? |
|
13:06:34 |
bennersmom |
? |
|
13:06:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
if you have a question for marilyn, go
ahead and throw out a single question
mark so that i can track who's next |
|
13:06:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
go ahead bennersmom |
|
13:07:02 |
bennersmom |
How has the number of circumcisions
(boys) changed in the past 28 years? |
|
13:07:11 |
jessm |
? |
|
13:07:40 |
bennersmom |
My DS is 7 months old, intact, and I'm
finding that many of my friends have
decided not to circumcise either. Just
wondering about the trend. |
|
13:07:43 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
When I began my work (May 1979), the
circumcision rate was 85-95%. Today,
it's about 55% nationally |
|
13:07:51 |
bennersmom |
That's great! |
|
13:07:58 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
and we're less than 25% in the western
states. |
|
13:08:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: bennersmom ...upcoming
chatters: jessm |
|
13:08:18 |
bennersmom |
I'm east coast~ wonder about that here? |
|
13:09:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
It's lower on the coasts and is also
dependant upon where you are. Where docs
are pushing it, the rate is higher and,
where they're educated, it goes down.
It's highest in the midwest, always the
slowest to change because they are
isolated. |
|
13:09:54 |
phatchristy |
? |
|
13:10:28 |
bennersmom |
That makes sense. Thanks. it's nice to
think that when my ds is older there
will be more intact boys than there used
to be.. Thank you. |
|
13:10:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
jessm you're up next |
|
13:10:46 |
jessm |
My son is circ he had adhesions his ped
said it would pop apart between the ages
of 3-5 and it has not what should we do
if anything we did try steroid cream 2
years ago but nothing.He is 5 now |
|
13:10:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks to everyone who is helping to
make America whole again! |
|
13:10:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: jessm ...upcoming
chatters: phatchristy |
|
13:12:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Leave his penis alone. What we've found
is that, even with adhesions, they
usually resolve by themselves, the same
as the synechia dissolves when left to
do so naturally. Like you, I have
circumcised sons, the gravest mistake I
made as a mother. |
|
13:12:51 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I hope, when you have more sons, you'll
leave their body intact. I now have four
intact grandsons. We learn. |
|
13:13:39 |
jessm |
i agree it makes me sad that we have
done it but we did we won't do it again.
so just leave sounds good to me wish i
had in the first |
|
13:14:20 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The penis is not done developing until
after puberty, so we don't know what a
boy will have until after he's 18 or so.
Thanks for letting me know you'll
protect any other sons you might have.
We just didn't know. |
|
13:14:32 |
Webmama_Tina |
phatchristy you're up! :) |
|
13:14:44 |
jessm |
your right thank you |
|
13:15:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
yes i have a friend with one circ'd son
and one intact and she has a blinkie on
her blog that says it all.... \one
circ'd from ignorance...one intact by
choice\" and \"when we know better, we
do better\"" |
|
13:15:37 |
phatchristy |
OK, it's not letting me copy paste, so I
have to type this out... |
|
13:15:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
try CTRL V |
|
13:15:51 |
Webmama_Tina |
for paste |
|
13:15:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
That's a great \blinkie!\"" |
|
13:16:09 |
Webmama_Tina |
actually it was 2 blinkies, but she has
them both on her blog... :) |
|
13:16:50 |
phatchristy |
OK, not working so I will write it out.
I am wondering what impact the new
penile sensitivity study coming out in
the BJU do you think will have on
physicians here in the US. |
|
13:16:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I just wrote them down so I won't
forget. Thanks! |
|
13:17:12 |
phatchristy |
I wonder what is being done to publicize
and alert the media |
|
13:17:53 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Well, first we have to hope that the
media will pick it up. So far, they
haven't, except for Dr. Dean Edell. I
was on his show yesterday, and he's
getting a good response. You can hear
yesterday's show on KGO Radio, click on
the 1pm slot in the archives. |
|
13:18:12 |
phatchristy |
Because, when you read the study, it is
pretty apparent that circumcision
removes the most sensitive parts of the
penis. DO you feel this will have an
impact here in the US or do you think
that the media will sweep it under the
rug so to speak. |
|
13:18:24 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
We sent out four press releases to more
than 3000 recipients, and I've still not
seen one story! |
|
13:18:30 |
phatchristy |
I'll have to check this out |
|
13:18:35 |
phatchristy |
That is pretty discouraging |
|
13:18:48 |
Quirky1 |
? |
|
13:19:29 |
phatchristy |
Do you think it is that the media
doesn't want men to feel bad, or that
the media itself is made up of
circumcised men who don't want to feel
bad. I just have to say it is a very
emotional issue. |
|
13:19:30 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
You can read the study at
www.nocirc.org , click on Penile
Sensitivity Study on the right side of
the home page. They may try to sweep it
under the rug, but it will eventually
get out. Basically it says what we
already knew, we just had to prove the
obvious |
|
13:19:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh woops, i got the wording wrong...its
\one circumcised out of ignorance...one
intact out of love\" (the blinkie)" |
|
13:20:10 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: phatchristy
...upcoming chatters: Quirky1 |
|
13:20:12 |
phatchristy |
Is there anything we can do to help
publicize the study? |
|
13:20:40 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
What man wants to learn that he was
strapped down and, without analgesia,
had the most sensitive part of his penis
cut off? What mother wants to learn that
her son suffered needlessly? and, what
doctor wants to admit he's got blood on
his hands? |
|
13:21:17 |
phatchristy |
But, if people never face it, things
will never change... |
|
13:21:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
perhaps those of us with blogs and sites
can start by posting the study on them |
|
13:21:39 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, you can help. Tell everyone you
know. Post it everywhere you can.
Thanks! |
|
13:21:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: phatchristy
...upcoming chatters: Quirky1 |
|
13:22:10 |
phatchristy |
Thank you Marilyn, very nice to \meet
you\"" |
|
13:22:11 |
greeneyes0506 |
My DH works in a hospital and has been
putting the study on all the bulletin
boards |
|
13:22:28 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The basic findings are: What is left of
the foreskin is more sensitive than the
whole of the glans. Sad, indeed! |
|
13:22:29 |
Webmama_Tina |
that's awesome greeneyes! |
|
13:22:45 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Please thank him for me!!! |
|
13:23:02 |
greeneyes0506 |
The nurses on his floor are still
talking about the HIV study though. They
keep recommending to circ because of it |
|
13:23:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
argh |
|
13:23:44 |
greeneyes0506 |
He's tried giving them the study that
shoes the Langerhan's cells in the
foreskin combat HIv but tey refuse to
read it |
|
13:23:51 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Okay, then just under the Penile
Sensitivity Study on our website is a
link to the Doctors Opposing
Circumcision Statement on circumcision
and AIDS. Have him print that out and
show it to everyone! |
|
13:24:27 |
Quirky1 |
I'm just wondering whether you're
publicizing the new sensitivity study to
the Gates Foundation, UNAIDS, and all
the other organizations flogging
universal circ as an HIV \vaccine.\" It
makes the ethical issues even more
problematic." |
|
13:24:43 |
greeneyes0506 |
I definitely will, anything I can do to
help save little boys! |
|
13:24:58 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The nurses are simply showing their own
response to truth. Gandhi said, \First
they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win.\"
They're just letting us know where they
are in accepting a new truth." |
|
13:25:26 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, we're sending it everywhere! Thanks
for asking! |
|
13:25:35 |
waterdog |
? |
|
13:25:50 |
Quirky1 |
Have you had any contacts with these
orgs to discuss this path of folly
they're heading down? Esp. Gates
Foundation |
|
13:26:28 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog |
|
13:26:54 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
We've tried... It's not easy... and we
never hear back... Remember, we're
challenging the dominant paradigm, the
status quo, and the current medical
model... |
|
13:27:30 |
Quirky1 |
Yah. There are none so blind as those
who will not see. |
|
13:28:01 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
And, 28 years ago, I thought it would be
easy...just a matter of education. I had
no idea what I was in for! |
|
13:28:23 |
Webmama_Tina |
you'd think it WOULD be easy...its just
so common sense! |
|
13:29:05 |
greeneyes0506 |
It is so culturally ingrained that no
one wants to see the truth. The
pro-circs keep coming up with asinine
excuses. They do not want to admit they
have damaged their children. |
|
13:29:21 |
greeneyes0506 |
excuse the spelling nak\ |
|
13:29:38 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, and that's why it's so perplexing.
But, circumcision has always been
fear-based. The excuses for it, since
its infiltration in western medicine to
prevent masturbation, are all fear
based. And, what is more scarey than
AIDS, which is why |
|
13:29:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
then you have people like a friend of
mine that just do it because that's what
everyone does and to look like
daddy....(stupidist reason in the book,
in my opinion) and then did younger
brother because older brother had it
done...and this is not an unintelligent
woman! so i guess its just not as
common sense as i thought! |
|
13:29:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
circumcision advocates are so
successful. |
|
13:30:20 |
Jwebbal |
I have a question |
|
13:30:27 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
If it had been easy to stop, that would
have happened the same day it started! |
|
13:30:46 |
Quirky1 |
It's a cultural mass psychosis. |
|
13:30:50 |
phatchristy |
It was so culturally ingrained that I
didn't even know that my own husband was
circumcised until I researched it when I
was pregnant. EVERY SINGLE anatomy
drawing I had ever seen was of a
circumcised penis. Anything to deny the
foreskin's existance. |
|
13:30:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog |
|
13:31:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
jwebbal, i'll add you to the list |
|
13:31:11 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog, Jwebbal |
|
13:31:12 |
Quirky1 |
OK, I'm done. :D |
|
13:31:23 |
phatchristy |
How ridiculous to think that someone
would purposefully cut off genitals for
no reason? |
|
13:31:29 |
Quirky1 |
except to say that I (heart) Marilyn!!!! |
|
13:31:53 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I liked the \cultural mass psychosis\"
-- thanks for that!" |
|
13:32:29 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks, Quirky 1! |
|
13:32:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok waterdog |
|
13:32:38 |
waterdog |
Where is your website? There are some
people I'd love to show the Doctors
Opposing Circumcision Statement to. |
|
13:32:49 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
www.nocirc.org |
|
13:32:56 |
waterdog |
Ahh! Thank you! |
|
13:33:03 |
greeneyes0506 |
And I want to add that I truly
appreciate all of the intactivist's
work. I am so glad that they reached me
before I gave birth to my son. I didn't
even think of not circumcising until and
intactivist pointed me in the right
direction. |
|
13:33:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks for your willingness to pass the
information along! |
|
13:33:20 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I need all the help I can get! |
|
13:33:33 |
mamajoy |
? |
|
13:33:59 |
waterdog |
The latest discusion I've had with
cutters was the AIDS issue, so I'm happy
to have that info! |
|
13:34:23 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Great. We put it on our site this
morning with the hope that it would be
useful to others. I'm glad it is! |
|
13:35:28 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
While I'm waiting for the next question
(I can't sit idly), let me say that you
women give me hope! Thank you for
that... |
|
13:35:28 |
waterdog |
I'm done. :) |
|
13:35:44 |
Quirky1 |
? |
|
13:36:05 |
Jwebbal |
that's me |
|
13:36:09 |
Jwebbal |
Hi Marilyn |
|
13:36:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
sorry, had a phone call...i'm back |
|
13:36:31 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Hi! Do you have a question? |
|
13:36:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
jwebbal, yup you're up |
|
13:36:47 |
Jwebbal |
my partner is a nurse, and she preferred
circed penises for many reasons |
|
13:36:59 |
Jwebbal |
I had her watch the circ video, and she
changed her mind lickity split, lol |
|
13:37:24 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Wonderful! She's obviously an
empathetic, compassionate person! |
|
13:37:45 |
Jwebbal |
these days, both of us view intact
penises as normal, and circed ones
strangely (despite not wanting to circ,
I still thought intact penises looked
funny) |
|
13:38:00 |
Jwebbal |
having that intact penis in our house
day after day changed us |
|
13:38:05 |
Webmama_Tina |
lol |
|
13:38:20 |
Webmama_Tina |
it really is about changing what's
normal, isn't it? |
|
13:38:33 |
Webmama_Tina |
we have the same thing here...daddy is
circ'd but baby isn't...and its just
normal |
|
13:38:41 |
Jwebbal |
but I am constantly surprised at how
little information is out there for
nurses, doctors and parents on the care
of an intact penis |
|
13:38:42 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
By the way, NOCIRC soon will have more
free DVDs of our Public Service
Announcement, a talk about the
structures, functions, development, and
care of the normal penis, and a short
segment of a circumcision. If you want
it, let me know at
nocirc@cris.com . |
|
13:38:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
actually dh's scars are looking more
obvious to me |
|
13:39:14 |
mamajoy |
I was changing a diaper in our church
nursery the first time I saw a circ'ed
penis. The mom was so proud, and I was
horrified :( |
|
13:39:18 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh can you also share the info for
people to get a copy of the penn and
teller dvd? i have the info somewhere
still if you don't have it on hand |
|
13:39:29 |
Jwebbal |
just the other day a woman with a an
intact son (preemie too young to circ)
talked in a playgroup about forcing the
foreskin back to clean it! |
|
13:39:42 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
There is lots of information on the care
of the intact penis. See
www.nocirc.org , click on pamphlets
and read #3, 4, 6, and 7. Also, click on
\Directory,\" again on \"Important
Articles\" and read the 2-4 articles." |
|
13:39:43 |
phatchristy |
Tina, I have the same problem. I
honestly feel bad saying it, but I can't
look at a circumcised penis and not feel
sad |
|
13:39:48 |
mina |
I have situation where I have married a
Jewish man and become Jewish myself--but
I used to write papers against the case
for circumcision all through college!
we are trying to have another baby and
the thought of having a boy terrifies me
as |
|
13:40:05 |
Jwebbal |
my friend and I told her all about
proper care of an intact penis, I was
shocked she didn't know and her doctor
didn't tell her! |
|
13:40:20 |
Webmama_Tina |
wow |
|
13:40:23 |
greeneyes0506 |
MThe 1st ped I used to me to retract DS |
|
13:40:24 |
mina |
as we will have to make a decision--i
really don't think I could do it but it
is very important to my husband has
anyone had this experience? |
|
13:40:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok mamas, lets queue up again...its
getting a little chaotic, lol |
|
13:40:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
post a question mark if you want to ask
a question |
|
13:40:51 |
mina |
? |
|
13:40:54 |
mamajoy |
? |
|
13:40:57 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Tina, I hope you'll share info about the
Penn DVD. I don't have it. |
|
13:40:58 |
Jwebbal |
mina, my friend is jewish and she did
not circ her two boys, there is a
movement not to circ jewish sons |
|
13:41:09 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok i'll go look it up...meantime, mina,
you're up! :) |
|
13:41:18 |
greeneyes0506 |
DH is Muslim and demanded we circ DS. I
refused, printed up info and DH agreed |
|
13:41:48 |
balupaw |
hello all |
|
13:41:51 |
mina |
yes, sorry not to wait for my turn. I
am really struggling to find resources
and other experiences where a Jewish
family did not circumcise |
|
13:41:58 |
Webmama_Tina |
Welcome to this week's Mothering
Sponsored chat! This is a moderated
chat. Please make sure you read and
fully understand the Moderated Chat
Instructions before participating in
this chat. Instructions can be found
here:
http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm
...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not
post unless it is your turn to ask a
question. If you have a question, please
post a single \?\" and you'll be added
to the queue. Have your question ready
when your name is called. " |
|
13:42:08 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
There are rabbis who are now doing the
brit shalom (a ceremony of peace). A boy
does NOT have to be cut to be Jewish! |
|
13:42:26 |
mina |
I do not feel like I could actually go
through with it if we had a son. my
husband feels very strongly about
circumcising and that is hard to argue
against |
|
13:42:32 |
Webmama_Tina |
there is an organization...do you know
the one, marilyn? jewish organization
against circ |
|
13:42:44 |
mina |
also, he make the argument that it did
not hurt him any, even though I have
shown him a lot of research! |
|
13:42:50 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Wonderful about the Muslim father. Bless
his heart. |
|
13:43:13 |
HONEY |
? ( going to lay dd down, yell if its my
turn, TY ;) ) |
|
13:43:47 |
mina |
thank you, yes I have heard of that
organization and will look them up in
more detail |
|
13:43:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/
|
|
13:44:08 |
mina |
thanks very much, this is helpful |
|
13:44:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
See
www.JewsAgainstCircumcision.org
and also
www.crc.org . Ronald Goldman's book
Questioning Circumcision: A Jewish
Perspective is excellent. |
|
13:44:15 |
Webmama_Tina |
that's about questioning it |
|
13:44:23 |
Webmama_Tina |
google it...you'll find lots on the net |
|
13:44:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
|
|
13:44:58 |
greeneyes0506 |
Is there a Muslim organization against
circ? If not I'd love to start one |
|
13:45:15 |
mina |
thank you, I come from Japan where we
don't' circumcise so it is really a hard
situation |
|
13:45:28 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
There might be, but I'm not sure. Check
www.MuslimsAgainstCircumcision.org . |
|
13:46:23 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Most folks from non-circumcising worlds
are astonished by the barbarity of the
practice and cannot understand how this
can be done in a \civilized\" society.
My answer to that is, it's not!" |
|
13:46:56 |
mina |
thank you for all of the answers |
|
13:47:39 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I can connect you to the Jewish doctor
who heads the brit shalom group. Email
me at
nocirc@cris.com . |
|
13:47:51 |
mina |
great, thank you! |
|
13:48:55 |
greeneyes0506 |
? |
|
13:49:30 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
While I'm waiting for another question,
let me say that I'm hearing about
parents going back for a second circ
because not enough skin was amputated
the first time. Bad idea! Please tell
them not to subject their son to a
second mistake! |
|
13:50:33 |
Quirky1 |
I have a suggestion for the sticky at
the Mothering forum and a NOCIRC
pamphlet -- normal separation trauma and
the fact that redness/irritation is
normal. We see so many questions from
concerned parents getting misinformation
from medical professionals! |
|
13:50:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
sorry mamas, it seems to be grand
central station at my house...got
sidetracked by someone at my door! LOL |
|
13:51:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok so i guess mamajoy left? |
|
13:51:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
greeneyes...go for it while i sort
through and see if i missed anyone |
|
13:53:11 |
greeneyes0506 |
Well, I really have two questions, hope
thats ok. |
|
13:53:17 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
A red, irritated foreskin is easily
treated with liquid Acidophilus culture
applied to the foreskin six times a day
-- what I call Bacterial Replacement
Therapy. The problem is usually resolved
& the foreskin back to health in 2-3
days! So easy! |
|
13:53:46 |
mamacarla |
thanks for that info marilyn |
|
13:53:54 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh it looks like i missed honey, sorry
honey! we'll get you next! :) |
|
13:54:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: greeneyes0506
...upcoming chatters:HONEY |
|
13:54:44 |
greeneyes0506 |
DH works in health care, and has never
really dealt with circumcision hands on.
Due to an opening on another floor he
may be required to assist in circs, but
he does not want to. The mention on a
conscientious observer has come up. |
|
13:54:56 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The redness is often from bubble baths,
soap or shampoos in the bath,
chlorinated swimming pools and hot tubs,
and the worst offender is antibiotics.
These all destroy the normal bacterial
balance. |
|
13:55:38 |
greeneyes0506 |
His supervisor has said his career will
be hurt by a refusal to assist and that
he may not receive this promotion or any
others for a while. Are they allowed to
do that? |
|
13:55:51 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, we can help him with that! We have
attorneys who will defend your husband's
right to object to the amputation of a
normal body part of a non-consenting
minor. |
|
13:56:55 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
They do it, but it's not ethical or
moral. Have your husband call David
Llewellyn at 404-524-5626, ext 114, to
get his rights straight. David is the
most informed attorney we have! |
|
13:57:08 |
Webmama_Tina |
awesome! |
|
13:57:19 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
They are trying to scare your husband
into compliance. |
|
13:57:48 |
greeneyes0506 |
Yes, DH said another RN was forced to
quit after she refused to help, they
made life hell for her |
|
13:58:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh i found the penn and teller info:
\People can write to John Geisheker,
Esq., legal counsel for Doctors Opposing
Circumcision, at
< kiwijohn2@cs.com > for a free DVD
of the show. Or, for a video tape, they
can write to William Stowell
< StopCircVA@aol.com > and ask. The
videotapes are $5 each, to cover the
tape and postage. \""
You found
Cookie #8!! The last cookie!
CONGRATS!! ENJOY THE REST OF THE
HOOPLA!
|
|
13:58:39 |
greeneyes0506 |
Thank you for the info Marilyn! |
|
13:59:06 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The Nurses for the Rights of the Child
spent a year at St. Vincent Hospital in
Santa Fe, NM, to determine their right
to conscientious objection. It's not
easy, but it can be, should be, and
needs to be done! Your dh won't have to
reinvent the wheel, either |
|
13:59:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
HONEY, you're up@ |
|
13:59:22 |
HONEY |
hi Marilyn, my son is almost 5mo and on
is lil testical sac on the left side it
keeps getting red and raw looking, i've
tried lots of things, and ideas?? (tried
not using wipes, tried different bum
creams, switched diaper brands) |
|
14:00:39 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Sounds like ammoniacal dermatitis. I'd
try using cloth diapers, no creams, no
bubble baths or soaps on the area, and
see if applying some liquid Acidophilus
culture. |
|
14:01:12 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
oops, didn't finish that sentence,
anyway maybe the Acidophilus will help. |
|
14:01:28 |
HONEY |
can i get it in Canada?? |
|
14:01:46 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
You should be able to get it at your
local healthfood store. |
|
14:02:03 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Acidophilus culture is the active
ingredient in yogurt. |
|
14:02:37 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Oh, I guess the obvious thing to mention
is frequent diaper changes. |
|
14:02:38 |
HONEY |
lol could i put plain yogurt on him....
MIL said to try that |
|
14:02:45 |
Quirky1 |
If you're already using cloth, make sure
to strip the diapers to make sure
there's no urine buildup. |
|
14:03:13 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
You could, it's just that the
Acidophilus culture is more
concentrated. |
|
14:03:31 |
HONEY |
im using disposables, and i change him
as soon as he is damp, i also do naked
time |
|
14:03:31 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks, Tina, for the information about
the DVD. |
|
14:03:43 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Naked time is always good! |
|
14:04:04 |
Quirky1 |
Great opportunity to try elimination
communication! :D |
|
14:04:23 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Try cloth diapers because it may be
something in the disposable diaper that
is causing the irritation. |
|
14:04:28 |
HONEY |
not for me , TY though :) |
|
14:06:32 |
HONEY |
ty so much for the info |
|
14:06:48 |
HONEY |
btw, i think its cruel to circ |
|
14:06:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok did we get all the questions? |
|
14:07:09 |
Webmama_Tina |
well we all definitely agree with you
there honey, :() |
|
14:07:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
woops :) |
|
14:07:24 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, it is cruel, but parents who are
not informed don't know that... |
|
14:07:28 |
HONEY |
you cant spank a child, but you can cut
off body parts, i don't understand it :( |
|
14:07:30 |
de-lovely |
Hi all I am so bummed |
|
14:07:31 |
Webmama_Tina |
exactly |
|
14:07:37 |
de-lovely |
it has taken me the last hour to get
java to work for me |
|
14:07:45 |
Webmama_Tina |
:( de-lovely |
|
14:07:49 |
de-lovely |
i have waited and waited for this chat |
|
14:07:53 |
de-lovely |
ahhh well |
|
14:07:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
marilyn, can you answer me one quick
question? |
|
14:08:07 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh and do you have time for de-lovely's
question? |
|
14:08:23 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Don't worry, if you have questions, you
can always email me at
nocirc@cris.com . And, I'm here til
we answer your questions. |
|
14:08:57 |
Webmama_Tina |
my question is what is the standard
these days for circs....do they still do
them un-anesthetized? |
|
14:09:16 |
greeneyes0506 |
I have one more quick question as well,
if you don't mind. =) |
|
14:09:19 |
Webmama_Tina |
everyone i run into that says that they
circ says \oh well nowadays they
anesthetize them\"" |
|
14:10:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
and is it true that even if its
anesthetized its still painful? i know
the answer but want it for the
transcripts.... |
|
14:10:15 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The majority of circumcisions performed
in the US today are done without
analgesia. But, even if analgesia is
used, the only one that is truly
effective takes four injections into the
penis and, when it wears, off the baby
suffers the pain of amputation. |
|
14:10:58 |
Webmama_Tina |
i've heard the injections can be just as
painful as the amputation? |
|
14:11:00 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
In many places, they use EMLA cream, a
topical, non-effective analgesia that is
dangerous for babies under three months. |
|
14:11:50 |
Webmama_Tina |
do they give painkillers to take home? |
|
14:11:56 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
If we were talking about female genital
cutting, would analgesia be the issue?
No, what we are talking about is the
baby's right to his own body. We -- not
parents or doctors -- have the right to
cut normal tissue off the baby! |
|
14:12:01 |
Webmama_Tina |
(gathering info for next encounter i
have) |
|
14:12:09 |
mina |
The bris's I have seen in Amsterdam (the
netherlands) strap the babies down onto
a plastic board and they use some method
which takes literally 10 minutes while
the baby is screaming. I believe they
give one shot beforehand |
|
14:12:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh i totally agree! |
|
14:12:17 |
Webmama_Tina |
these are the arguments i hear |
|
14:12:20 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
No, they don't give babies analgesia to
take home. |
|
14:12:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
just vaseline? |
|
14:12:45 |
Webmama_Tina |
no prescription? |
|
14:12:50 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
It take a ring block -- four shots -- if
the analgesia is going to work. |
|
14:12:50 |
phatchristy |
? |
|
14:13:50 |
Webmama_Tina |
i also hear the moms saying that their
baby acted like it was no big
deal...didn't fuss much....i've heard
that's because the babies are in shock? |
|
14:14:10 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
They haven't even considered babies
feeling pain until 1987 when Anand and
Hickey did their landmark study proving
otherwise. It took another 12 years
before the AAP recommended analgesia, as
if it worked... |
|
14:14:31 |
Webmama_Tina |
sorry this didn't turn into a quick
question....de-lovely...you can go, i'm
done...i just wanted this info in every
transcript on circumcision...for the
uneducated. |
|
14:14:38 |
de-lovely |
The most important question for me right
now is how do I start a No-Circ chapter
here in Indianapolis? What exactly does
being a director entail? |
|
14:14:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, circumcision is where sex and
violence first meet and for many babies,
it's the birth of the disocciative
state. |
|
14:15:34 |
Webmama_Tina |
so sad, marilyn...and so many people
argue so strongly for it! i know someone
that laughed and joked about his newborn
son \getting cut\"" |
|
14:15:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
just sick |
|
14:15:38 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Each director does what s/he can. I'll
be happy to send you guidelines if
you'll email me your postal address.
Thanks for asking, we need all the help
we can get! |
|
14:16:00 |
de-lovely |
Thanks I'll get it off the site.... |
|
14:16:14 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Remember, a person's reaction to someone
else's pain is very revealing. It tells
us a lot about that person, doesn't it! |
|
14:16:18 |
de-lovely |
Tina-when will transcripts be available? |
|
14:16:25 |
phatchristy |
(Quick question)? |
|
14:16:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
soon...they are emailed to me in the
morning and i try to find time in the
next week or so to edit and upload |
|
14:16:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
email me if i take too long, to remind
me |
|
14:16:52 |
de-lovely |
awesome-will you send notice thru the
yahoo! group? |
|
14:16:57 |
Webmama_Tina |
yes |
|
14:17:06 |
Webmama_Tina |
if you're on the yahoo group you'll get
notice when its up |
|
14:17:08 |
de-lovely |
sweet take your time |
|
14:17:21 |
Webmama_Tina |
marilyn...i'm still trying to figure out
what this said about this dad... |
|
14:17:49 |
Webmama_Tina |
he was absolutely ADAMANT that his boy
be circ'd...but he's very uneducated on
these things so i know he just didn't
know what its about |
|
14:18:19 |
Webmama_Tina |
phatchristy, go for it...then we should
wrap it up so marilyn can get back to
whatever she's doing :) |
|
14:18:25 |
phatchristy |
Marilynn, with all your lengthy
experience I am interested to learn your
perspective on this question. What do
you feel will ultimately end RIC here in
the US? |
|
14:18:51 |
Webmama_Tina |
hm, good question |
|
14:18:55 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
And, Wilhelm Reich said, \When a person
has repressed an emotion within himself,
he is unable to recognize the expression
of that emotion in someone else.\"
Hence, the dad's reaction. He's in
denial and hasn't faced his own sexual
abuse. Passing it along." |
|
14:19:01 |
phatchristy |
(good ending question huh? LOL) |
|
14:19:05 |
Webmama_Tina |
isn't the routine part ended at least
mostly? |
|
14:19:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Education, education, education. |
|
14:19:19 |
Webmama_Tina |
at least in California it is...where i'm
at |
|
14:19:21 |
Webmama_Tina |
you have to ask for it |
|
14:19:25 |
greeneyes0506 |
Marilyn, another quick question. In the
hospital where I gave birth, there was a
mandatory parenting class before
leaving. The nurse told everyone that
circ was better for the baby's health,
and that you should start retracting at
1 year old. |
|
14:20:00 |
greeneyes0506 |
In which ways can I force the hospital
to give correct information? |
|
14:20:01 |
phatchristy |
So, you don't think male infants in the
US will ever be legally protected
against MGM? |
|
14:20:21 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Both points terrible advice. Please
gather information together and take it
to the nurse, the hospital, the hospital
ethics board. Anyone you can get to
listen. |
|
14:21:11 |
greeneyes0506 |
Thank you. They also had a circ info
video but pulled it because parents were
getting upset. I'm hoping I can make
them put it back |
|
14:21:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
wow, i hear misinformation from medical
professionals happening all the time but
it never ceases to amaze me |
|
14:21:40 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
We don't know if protection of boys --
which is already in place in the
Constitution and universal documents --
will ever be enacted... But, we can hope
that, once we have enough intact boys
and men, that it will! |
|
14:21:45 |
Quirky1 |
That hospital needs to know that they're
at risk of LAWSUITS now or in 18 years
for lack of informed consent. |
|
14:21:48 |
Webmama_Tina |
they actually showed one at my infant
info class.....way back when i was pg
with dd, she's 6yrs now |
|
14:21:52 |
laurabelle1317 |
Hi. I have come late to this chat. When
will the transcript be available? |
|
14:22:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
i think it helped shake the dads up |
|
14:22:19 |
greeneyes0506 |
I know the circ video shook my DH to the
core |
|
14:22:31 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Witnessing a video of a circumcision is
the most effective tool we have to bring
circumcision to a halt. |
|
14:22:34 |
Webmama_Tina |
laura, in the next week |
|
14:22:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
if you are on the yahoogroup i will post
when its up |
|
14:22:46 |
Webmama_Tina |
Please join the Mommy Chats egroup at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mommychats
to receive notices about upcoming chats
and changes to Mommy Chats. |
|
14:22:47 |
de-lovely |
I cant usually get thru a video if I am
showing someone else |
|
14:22:53 |
de-lovely |
one full time was enough for me |
|
14:22:58 |
greeneyes0506 |
We need parents to know its not just a
snip |
|
14:23:08 |
Webmama_Tina |
heck ya...and those \cool\" dads that
won't listen...should watch penn and
teller" |
|
14:23:16 |
Webmama_Tina |
they make a joke of it but still get the
point across |
|
14:23:28 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
In the early days of my work, I watched
every video I could. Now, I cannot bring
myself to do that. I understand... |
|
14:23:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
in fact...this dad i mentioned is having
another boy this summer...i'm going to
get a copy of that to the mom! |
|
14:24:04 |
Webmama_Tina |
anyone want the penn and teller info
again? |
|
14:24:05 |
Quirky1 |
Tina, you should read
http://www.circumstitions.com/men-vuln.html
|
|
14:24:20 |
Webmama_Tina |
in case you're unaware, penn and teller
did a really great show against
circumcision |
|
14:24:27 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Laughing at circumcision is letting off
the steam of the reality. Imagine having
to face that primal wound within oneself
-- or to admit that the best part of the
penis was cut off because those who
loved you didn't know enough to protect
you... |
|
14:24:44 |
Webmama_Tina |
it does use profanity, as is typical
with penn and teller...so do keep in
mind for children in the room |
|
14:24:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
and they do show several circs |
|
14:25:15 |
greeneyes0506 |
I'm so glad I found a video before it
was too late. I didn't know the truth
until I was 39 weeks |
|
14:25:18 |
de-lovely |
i want the info tina |
|
14:25:21 |
mina |
sorry, how can you buy this video? |
|
14:25:26 |
Webmama_Tina |
People can write to John Geisheker,
Esq., legal counsel for Doctors Opposing
Circumcision, at
<kiwijohn2@cs.com > for a free DVD
of the show. Or, for a video tape, they
can write to William Stowell
<StopCircVA@aol.com > and ask. The
videotapes are $5 each, to cover the
tape and postage. |
|
14:25:31 |
Webmama_Tina |
its a free dvd |
|
14:25:33 |
Webmama_Tina |
they'll send to you |
|
14:25:34 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I helped a lot with that show, but what
they did was way beyond anything I could
have thought of... I think it does a
marvelous job at educating a specific
audience. |
|
14:25:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
the video costs |
|
14:25:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
but the dvd is free |
|
14:25:54 |
Webmama_Tina |
heck ya...its great for the MEN! |
|
14:26:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
cuz they can relate to penn and teller |
|
14:26:50 |
de-lovely |
i missed the penn and teller info tina
SORRY lol |
|
14:26:58 |
Webmama_Tina |
People can write to John Geisheker,
Esq., legal counsel for Doctors Opposing
Circumcision, at
<kiwijohn2@cs.com > for a free DVD
of the show. Or, for a video tape, they
can write to William Stowell
<StopCircVA@aol.com > and ask. The
videotapes are $5 each, to cover the
tape and postage. |
|
14:27:06 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
My I also suggest a magnificent video,
\Birth As We Know It.\" It has a short
circ segment, juxtaposed to wonderful,
ecstatic births. Go to
www.birthintobeing.com to see
a trailer for it." |
|
14:27:12 |
de-lovely |
You rock thanks! |
|
14:27:56 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Tina, I meant to say \May I suggest...\"
Do you correct the misspellings in the
transcript?" |
|
14:29:22 |
Webmama_Tina |
thanks marilyn |
|
14:29:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
i do correct some, yes :) |
|
14:29:45 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Good. |
|
14:29:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
my spellchecker tends to snag it :) |
|
14:30:17 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok thank you soooo much marilyn! always
a very sad yet insightful chat! |
|
14:30:23 |
Webmama_Tina |
its important...it needs to be said |
|
14:30:31 |
Webmama_Tina |
thank you to all who came! |
|
14:30:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, thank you, one & all! You give me
hope... |
|
14:31:02 |
Webmama_Tina |
we need to get more tshirts out there! |
|
14:31:08 |
waterdog |
penn & teller info one more time,
please? |
|
14:31:16 |
Webmama_Tina |
i'm glad y'all will have a presence at
our upcoming babyfest! |
|
14:31:18 |
Webmama_Tina |
People can write to John Geisheker,
Esq., legal counsel for Doctors Opposing
Circumcision, at
<kiwijohn2@cs.com > for a free DVD
of the show. Or, for a video tape, they
can write to William Stowell
<StopCircVA@aol.com > and ask. The
videotapes are $5 each, to cover the
tape and postage. |
|
14:31:23 |
waterdog |
ty |
|
14:31:27 |
Webmama_Tina |
it will be in the transcripts too |
|
14:32:07 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Are we done? |
|
14:32:28 |
Quirky1 |
Another page of links to videos on
circumcision, for those for whom Penn &
Teller might be too profane
http://www.circumcisionvideos.com/
|
|
14:32:59 |
Quirky1 |
Esp. \Mother, Why Was I Circumcised?\"" |
|
14:33:26 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, that's a good one! |
|
14:33:27 |
Webmama_Tina |
great thanks quirky! |
|
14:36:12 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks, Tina! |
