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Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Sarah Buckley, trained GP (family MD), with qualifications in GP-obstetrics and family planning. Sarah is also a writer on pregnancy, birth and parenting. Topics which Sarah has researched and written about include ecstatic birth; epidurals and other drugs in labour, ultrasound and prenatal diagnosis; third stage of labour and lotus birth; extended breastfeeding; co-sleeping; elimination communication (raising babies without diapers/nappies); healing power of birth; yoga and motherhood; fertility awareness and gentle discipline. Sarah encourages us all to listen to our hearts and our intuition, and to claim our rightful role as the real experts in pregnancy, birth and mothering.
www.mothering.com
8/3/05

24 mamas in attendance

All Mothering Sponsored chats with Sarah Buckley:

19:06:37 Webmama_Tina ok today's guest speaker is sarah buckley...
19:06:44 Webmama_Tina soooo glad to have you sarah!
19:06:53 Webmama_Tina how is it down under?
19:06:56 Webmama_Tina ;)
19:07:02 sarahjbuckley Thnaks Tina,  I’m a family physician, currently full-time mama to my four children,  (ages 14, 11, 9 and 5, all born at home) and a writer on pregnancy, birth and parenting. My most recent article is ‘The Amazing Placenta’ in July-Aug Mothering, and I’m finishing my book, Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering: The Best Articles by Sarah J Buckley MD on Gentle Choices in Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting, due for release in October- see my website www.sarahjbuckley.com for more (also a family photo on my bio page!) Oh, and I’m a slow typist!
19:07:14 Webmama_Tina go ahead and introduce yourself, sarah, and tell us a little about your background and expertise. :) oh you beat me, lol
19:07:35 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue:  Michele
19:07:51 sarahjbuckley Ok, here is my topicsm you can ask any of these!
19:07:51 teagreenribbons Jessica as well
19:07:55 sarahjbuckley Topics which Sarah has researched and written about include ecstatic birth; epidurals and other drugs in labour, ultrasound and prenatal diagnosis; third stage of labour and lotus birth; extended breastfeeding; co-sleeping; elimination communication (raising babies without diapers/nappies); healing power of birth; yoga and motherhood; fertility awareness and gentle discipline.
19:08:01 Webmama_Tina if you posted a question mark during the time that i was booted from the chat...so sorry...just post it again...i only have michele so far
19:08:28 Michele May I ask Sarah my ?
19:08:31 Webmama_Tina okey dokey michele, you're up!
19:08:37 Michele ok thanks
19:08:38 Webmama_Tina yup go for it. :)
19:08:56 Webmama_Tina If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called. THANKYOU! :)"
19:09:01 teagreenribbons Don't know to phase my question to Sarah
19:09:09 Michele Sarah.....I was wondering how I can go about weaning my 27 month old son?
19:09:39 Webmama_Tina teagreenribbons when its your turn you can ask her for some help. :)
19:09:40 sarahjbuckley OK, well can you tell me a bit more, are you ready in some way, is he ready in some way?
19:09:42 mairead ?
19:09:55 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue: Michele  mairead
19:10:02 Webmama_Tina and i'll add you too  teagreenribbons
19:10:20 Michele well, it has gotten to the point where he is really rude and pushy about nursing.  If I say no he has a fit and starts tearing at my shirt and trying to nurse anyway.
19:10:31 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue: Michele, mairead,  teagreenribbons
19:10:44 Michele He is still wants to nurse all the time and I am getting frustrated
19:11:04 Michele he would rather nurse than eat food
19:11:47 sarahjbuckley Ok, its ounds liek you need some ground rules here! I found btw 2 and 3 that it became possible to negotaiet around ahwet was Ok for me, and begin to have specific times and/or situations where I will say yes, eg nigth time, rest time, in bed- do you think this would work with your son? Is he verbal anough to understand ?
19:12:05 sarahjbuckley oops, sorry for the typos!
19:12:24 TurboClaudia ?
19:12:34 Michele He is verbal enough, but a stubborn little bugger...if I say we have to wait until night night he has a fit and starts clawing at my shirt and crying etc
19:12:37 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue: Michele, mairead, teagreenribbons,  TurboClaudia
19:13:06 Michele I just wonder when will he want to stop....I thought babies self weaned..lol
19:13:40 sarahjbuckley I also have found teh work of Aletha Solter sueful www.awareparenting.com for those areas where there is conflict, he may be needing some opportunities to experience your 'no' and to voice his protest. Aletha's book Tears and tantrums migth be very useful to you
19:14:17 Michele ok....but I hate to say this I really don't have time to read...I have 4 kids at home and no mommy time
19:14:46 sarahjbuckley Well, some do deciode themselves, but it's interesting , the work of Kathleen Dettwyler suggests that the natural age of weaning in humans is 4 to 6 years, so there is still a need for many children at 2 or 3.
19:15:07 sarahjbuckley What happened with your others, Michelle, in terms of weaning?
19:15:08 Michele so I can't just cut him off cold turkey, huh?
19:15:35 Michele Ty is the only one that I nursed. :(
19:16:11 sarahjbuckley We,, it's a very strong reaction to your situation, it coudl be quite traumantic for him, it sounds like you could do with some time out yourself. Great that you have nursed him so far too!
19:16:32 Michele thanks ...I am so glad I stuck with it
19:17:37 sarahjbuckley I suggest that you decide yourself what is right for you- do you want to continue to nurse, if you can do it in a easier way, and let him know,. At this age, I began to tell my children Baboo in the moring, baboo at rest time, baboo at sleep time, and they understood, but you will probbaly have tpo deal with some tantrums however you do it."
19:18:15 Michele Thank you...that is what I have started to do...telling him for night night and naps.  I appreicate your help. :)
19:19:04 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue: mairead, teagreenribbons, TurboClaudia
19:19:18 mairead hi sarah and all i have 6 and half mos twins around 18 lbs have not started solids yet exclusive breast milk would like to continue w breastmilk only how long can i do that for and am taking prenatal supplements is that enough
19:19:26 sarahjbuckley Great instincts Michelle. There is a great website, mothering your nursing toddler, it's got some excellent idaes, resources, I think its myntoddler.org  or search teh title
19:19:58 Michele ok thanks
19:20:06 mairead woops sorry thought that was my turn call
19:20:37 sarahjbuckley If your babies are growing well, and happy, there is no need to introduce solids. I always recomend looking at the babies, not the cahrts or calendars, and also they will let you know , begin to grab food off your plate when they need it
19:20:46 TurboClaudia website is www.myntoddler.com
19:20:47 Webmama_Tina no worries...sometimes there are parting thoughts...woops, my bad
19:20:47 Webmama_Tina :)
19:21:36 maemery ?
19:21:42 sarahjbuckley Thanks Clauidia, I fogot to address that answer to Mairead, and also say congarts on your twins- big work but fun too, I imagine
19:22:09 mairead thanks sarah and should i be taking any xtra supplements its awesome and alot of work thanks
19:22:29 Webmama_Tina chatters in queue: teagreenribbons, TurboClaudia,  maemery
19:22:54 sarahjbuckley Another comment about slids and babies, sometimes it is said that you need to start iron-rich foods because they run out of iron stores by 6 montsh, but an exclusively braestfed babay actuall has a better iron intake.
19:23:04 teagreenribbons I'm getting new insurance, drop my last OB/GYN because she really didn't look at my notes last time, when I wanted to go on birth control again
19:23:15 teagreenribbons Last time*
19:23:44 sarahjbuckley I think suplements are probbaly good, I personally favout wholefoods like spiruline, gree barley powder, kelp, there are soem idaes about this in my expert panel answer on prenatal nutrition
19:23:45 Webmama_Tina current chatter: teagreenribbons...chatters in queue: TurboClaudia,  maemery
19:23:59 teagreenribbons For now I have a appointment with a new OB/GYN or should have I went with a Family physician
19:24:32 sarahjbuckley Ok, next question
19:25:01 Webmama_Tina teagreenribbons just asked a question, sarah...do you need me to repost it for you? :)
19:25:02 sarahjbuckley Sorry, Jessicam you are asking em about family physician vs obgyn care ?
19:25:10 Webmama_Tina lol nevermind
19:25:15 teagreenribbons Couple of questions
19:25:34 teagreenribbons Yeah, and also told you about my last OB/GYN as well
19:25:58 Webmama_Tina current chatter: teagreenribbons...chatters in queue: TurboClaudia, maemery
19:26:02 Webmama_Tina Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
19:26:05 teagreenribbons Have already appointment with my new OB/GYN
19:26:23 teagreenribbons So should I keep it
19:26:55 lifetish ?
19:27:06 sarahjbuckley Ok, well if you want a low-tech birth, it's best to choose the lowest-tech carer as well, family physician tend to have lower rates of intervention, I think it's a good idea. But alot of it is up to teh individual, how you get on with them ideally ask their other clients how they were cared for in labour, sometimes they seem good at appointments then ignore a birth plane etc in labour..
19:27:08 Webmama_Tina current chatter: teagreenribbons...chatters in queue: TurboClaudia, maemery,  lifetish
19:27:27 teagreenribbons I'm not pregnant or don't to be in the near future
19:28:02 sarahjbuckley I agree that your carer nbeeds to pay attention to you. Have you considered a midwife? It's the most personalised care you can get :)
19:28:25 teagreenribbons Also have a history of depression and anxiety which my OB/GYN really didn't look at and just gived me Birth Control
19:29:08 teagreenribbons Yeah, but the midwifes closest to me are in my old OB/GYNs office
19:29:36 Webmama_Tina Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
19:29:39 sarahjbuckley Sounds liek you have done the right thing looking for another carer. A family physicain would be able to care for all those other sides as well, more integrated, rather than just your pregnnacy.
19:30:01 teagreenribbons I'm in the middle of doctor/midwife/hospital/alternative birth center at the hospital/birth center/home
19:30:49 teagreenribbons The practice choosed was on the whole Womens Health, internist and OB/GYN
19:31:13 teagreenribbons Volunteer at the local hospital by me in their Maternity Unit, I do clerical work
19:31:42 teagreenribbons But still get to go into L & D and M & B
19:32:13 Webmama_Tina current chatter: teagreenribbons...chatters in queue: TurboClaudia, maemery,  lifetish
19:32:24 sarahjbuckley Hmm... tricky call here Jessica, sometimes you have to trust your gut in choosing your carers. If it all goes well,I guess you would stick with the midwife? Sound slioke you are well placed to know the carers. You knowk, when I really want to know more, I ask the staff that the carers work with, eg phone the birth centre and ask them if they can (covertly) point me towards the best carer
19:32:31 teagreenribbons Sarah are you answering my questions
19:32:50 Webmama_Tina i think she was typing,  teagreenribbons  :)
19:32:55 teagreenribbons K
19:33:15 sarahjbuckley Yes, sorry, i thought you were Jessica?
19:33:32 teagreenribbons Yup, teagreenribbons is Jessica
19:33:51 sarahjbuckley Have I answered your question ?
19:34:14 teagreenribbons Some of it, you need answer the last part of it
19:34:23 teagreenribbons As I rember
19:34:26 Webmama_Tina teagreenribbons if you have more questions you can get in line again...as many times as we have time for. :)
19:34:43 Webmama_Tina just post another question mark to get in line to ask another question. :)
19:34:49 teagreenribbons Already posted them
19:34:54 Webmama_Tina ok
19:35:26 sarahjbuckley Can you repeat what I haven't answered please?
19:35:42 teagreenribbons No, the midwifes in my area are way out of the way for me
19:36:11 teagreenribbons And birth center is also far way from me
19:37:06 sarahjbuckley Ok, so your choices are family physician or ob/gyn, I'd be asking around to find the best carer, decide what you want and go in with a list of questions. It's good to think about this before you get pregnant too!
19:37:14 teagreenribbons Sorry for taking so much time with my questions
19:37:32 sarahjbuckley No problem, wishing you well with your next pregnancy!ext question please
19:37:39 teagreenribbons Thanx
19:37:58 Webmama_Tina current chatter: TurboClaudia ...chatters in queue: maemery,  lifetish
19:37:59 teagreenribbons Never been pregnant before
19:37:59 TurboClaudia hi sarah!  thanks for joining us!
19:38:20 TurboClaudia my question is about our 14 month old son and his nursing
19:38:45 sarahjbuckley Thanks Claudia, tell me more...
19:39:05 TurboClaudia i have asked many people (la leche leaders, friends with older nurslings, others) about how to deal with his chew-y nursing habits, and i have tried all sorts of things an dnothing seems to have worked.
19:39:25 sarahjbuckley So he chews your nipple and it hurts?
19:39:30 TurboClaudia i have teeth marks around my nipple about 90% of the nursing sessions we have, which is only 2-3 times a day
19:39:39 TurboClaudia it's his top teeth,mostly
19:40:03 TurboClaudia he chews and it hurts, yes.
19:40:06 sarahjbuckley Well, it's Ok to have the teeth marks because they do tend to get imprinted by the suckling, but it's not meant to hurt
19:40:19 sarahjbuckley Has it always been like this or is it new?
19:40:36 TurboClaudia the hurting is newer., ;like within the last month or two
19:41:11 downtoearthmama ?
19:41:13 sarahjbuckley This is tricky to answer by email! Have you had a lactation consultant actually watch while you nurse?
19:41:15 TurboClaudia i try to remove him and relatch, but he just gets so frsutrated that i'm taking away his boobie, and starts crying, vocalizing his frsutration
19:41:22 ourwiefamily ?
19:41:37 TurboClaudia i have not.
19:41:38 Webmama_Tina current chatter: TurboClaudia ...chatters in queue: maemery,  lifetish,  downtoearthmama,  ourwiefamily
19:41:42 sarahjbuckley And also, are there timkes when it doesn't hurt?
19:41:58 TurboClaudia i have asked our lc about it over the phone and she had thoughts about how to change it however...
19:42:19 TurboClaudia itsorry, meant to say she had NO thoughts aobut how to change it
19:43:00 TurboClaudia it hurts more when i'm having my period or perhaps during my ovulation (sort of have charting right now because of middle of the night wake ups and inability to get a good temp reading)
19:43:02 sarahjbuckley It's hard to knwo, I would be looking for soemone who could watch what is going on, it may be a technique issue, or soemtimes teething will make the saliva acid and hurt your nipple after feeding.
19:43:39 sarahjbuckley I ahve also found that, as my nuslings have gotten older, they do suck harder, and tend to leave a teeth inprint
19:43:39 TurboClaudia our chiropractor says he uses his jaw a lot when nursing, but she had no thoughts on how to help that
19:44:42 sarahjbuckley I would recommend that you actually show an LC how you are feeding. Nursing does use the jaw, very much, it's healthy
19:45:25 TurboClaudia ok, i guess i will call our lcs and see who has experience with nursing toddlers/
19:45:30 TurboClaudia thanks!
19:46:06 sarahjbuckley It's a pleasure Claudia. You could also check out the myntoddler.com site
19:46:21 sarahjbuckley Next question thanks Tina
19:46:36 maemery Hi Sarah, I have asthma and allergies...my dh has slight allergies as well.  I'd like to protect my six week old son from developing asthma and allergies as much as possible...is this possible and how?  Right now I am breastfeeding him.
19:46:58 Webmama_Tina current chatter: maemery ...chatters in queue: lifetish, downtoearthmama, ourwiefamily
19:48:12 sarahjbuckley Well done, maemery, this is the best protection you can give against allergies, I suggest that you not introduce solids for around 6 months. I recommend the book Allergy Prevention for kids by Leo Galland
19:49:13 maemery sounds great...I love reading!
19:49:42 sarahjbuckley Another thing, it is a good idea to minimise house dust mite exposure, especially when he has a cold or cough, his airways will be more vulnerable then, so keep him off the carpets. I would also suggest you consider a mattress for him that prevets HDM exposure
19:50:33 sarahjbuckley The mattress protyectors that prevent HDM are usualy also waterproof, which is handy for babies and toddlers!
19:50:53 maemery what's the best way to get rid of HDM?  with an air filter?  what's the best type of mattress brand?
19:51:31 yaka11 Hello
19:51:57 yaka11 Is anyone still chatting?
19:52:17 Webmama_Tina yaka11 we are taking turns
19:52:18 maemery oh, so i shoul buy a mattress protector!
19:52:22 Webmama_Tina glad you made it!
19:52:26 Webmama_Tina Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
19:52:31 Webmama_Tina 8 min left in the chat
19:52:45 sarahjbuckley Well, I'm in Australia, but I recommend the covers with cotton lining on a pvc base, they breathe. I'd washa nd air it first.Air filters don't help, the HDM is very close to surface level, avoiding capets, wet mopping and wet dusting are all  good.
19:52:50 Webmama_Tina current chatter: maemery ...chatters in queue: lifetish, downtoearthmama, ourwiefamily
19:53:18 yaka11 ?
19:53:33 sarahjbuckley What surface does your son sleep on?
19:53:46 Webmama_Tina current chatter: maemery ...chatters in queue: lifetish, downtoearthmama, ourwiefamily,  yaka11
19:54:06 sarahjbuckley Sorry, maemery, I think I'd better got onto other question
19:54:17 maemery we have floors that can be washed...so i'll get dh on that right away!  thanx!
19:54:23 lifetish Sarah, may I first say thank you, because of you we didn't cut the cord until about an hour after birth.
19:54:23 Webmama_Tina At this time, the queue is full. Questions already in line will be asked, but we cannot take anymore today. Sorry for the inconvenience.
19:54:55 Webmama_Tina current chatter:lifetish ...chatters in queue: downtoearthmama, ourwiefamily,  yaka11
19:55:15 sarahjbuckley Lovely to hear, lifetish, as you probbaly know, that's one of my passions, the time after birth, so good that your baby got the full blood and that extra time with their placenta!
19:55:22 lifetish Since my homebirth 16 months ago, I am finally getting to taking my Masters in Psychology this Fall.  I want to take advantage of every moment and thought you could share areas you wished someone would focus on.
19:55:37 sarahjbuckley Whoah, great question!
19:55:45 lifetish research and studies that haven
19:56:43 avivaelona hello
19:57:19 Webmama_Tina avivaelona we are just wrapping up our weekly mothering chat... sorry there's no more time for more questions...
19:57:24 Webmama_Tina At this time, the queue is full. Questions already in line will be asked, but we cannot take anymore today. Sorry for the inconvenience.
19:57:28 sarahjbuckley I would love to see more about the long-term impact of birth and early experiences on teh offspring. It would be phenomenal to study a cohort that had these (now unusual ) experiences and see how they progress through childood. But taht's a bit big eh? A review of teh lit would be great!
19:57:33 Webmama_Tina current chatter:lifetish ...chatters in queue: downtoearthmama, ourwiefamily,  yaka11
19:58:18 sarahjbuckley I'm also really interested in teh impact of prenatal diagnosis on mother-child relationships, can you get my email from tina nd we can talk some more?
19:58:36 teagreenribbons Same here Sarah and Tina
19:58:44 teagreenribbons about the email
19:58:59 lifetish t    Sure, thank you so much for sharing in Mothering and here today!!!
19:59:10 sarahjbuckley Yes, Ok, your question was a bit complicated, I'm ahppy ot talk more Jessica.
19:59:11 Webmama_Tina do you feel comfortable posting your email here sarah? or would you rather i share with those that email me?
19:59:20 teagreenribbons Thanx
19:59:46 Webmama_Tina current chatter:downtoearthmama...chatters in queue: ourwiefamily,  yaka11
19:59:49 sarahjbuckley Ok email me on sarahjubuckley@uqconnect.net
19:59:51 downtoearthmama I am 33 weeks, 2nd pregnancy. Getting alot of pressure from my ob/gyn to get a sonogram because I am measuring big (1st baby was 9lb 8oz). She wants to induce if it looks like this one is over 10lbs. I don't want induction, any suggestions?
20:00:02 sarahjbuckley oops, sarahjbuckley@uqconnect.net
20:00:06 Webmama_Tina just easier that way :)
20:00:26 sarahjbuckley How was the first birth, downtoearthmama?
20:01:08 downtoearthmama 12 hours total, back labor (posterior baby), an unwanted episiotomy, but otherwise fine.
20:03:08 sarahjbuckley Well, I'm not a fan of induction, and teh medical evidence doesn't show that it helps with big bbaies. the problem with induction is that your body isn't at its peak readiness for birth, when it is really soft and your pelvic bones can open fully to let your baby out. there is a great resource called the Pink Kit , search the title on teh web, it helps you to work wioth your own anatomy to get teh most out of your dimensions, if you think your babu will be big, thsi would be very hekpful, I'd agreeabout avoiding an induction
20:03:42 sarahjbuckley Hope that's clear, with all the typos!
20:03:58 downtoearthmama Yes, thank you for the suggestion!
20:04:26 Webmama_Tina current chatter:ourwiefamily...chatters in queue: yaka11
20:04:29 ourwiefamily I have had 6 children (youngest is 10 months old).  My first 5 were between 6.5 and 8 pounds.  My sixth baby weighed in at 11 pounds 4 ounces.  I didn't do anything different to my knowledge.  What would cause that leap? Should i be concerned about anythin
20:04:34 ourwiefamily next time?  (not pg now)
20:05:28 sarahjbuckley There is a graet essay by Canadian Gloria lemay called Pelvises I have known and loved, it's about how teh idea of teh mother's pelvis being too small is a myth. Search the title, I think its on teh Midwifery Today site
20:06:31 ourwiefamily yeah ... my big baby birthed just fine
20:06:42 sarahjbuckley Congratulations  ourwie family on you large lovely family. Bbaies do tend to get bigger, I'd also be ensuring my diet wasn't too high in sugars- natural or sucrose- esp in teh second half of pregnancy.
20:06:46 ourwiefamily just wasn't sure if that size leap would indicate something wrong since my others were all so small
20:07:30 sarahjbuckley Did you get checked for gestational diabetes?
20:07:34 ourwiefamily no
20:07:52 ourwiefamily I am allergic to food dye and the doctor didn't have a dye free alternative for me
20:08:05 ourwiefamily for the glucola drink, i mean
20:08:34 sarahjbuckley Well, this would be worthwhile if you have another baby, it does get more liekly with age, with number of children, although also see my Mothering expert answer about whether it is a disease at all. The main thing is to keep sugars low in teh diet
20:09:02 ourwiefamily I did feel very shakey about sugars in the first trimester but got so I didn't notice by the end of pg
20:09:15 Webmama_Tina sorry sarah i just noticed we are now over time...do you have time for the last question?
20:09:51 Webmama_Tina i mean after ourwie's, of course. :)
20:10:00 sarahjbuckley Yes, I', OK, can go another 10 mins or so...
20:10:13 Webmama_Tina ok just wanted to make sure...sorry, continue... :)
20:11:25 sarahjbuckley So, I woudl be lloking at sugar intake, review your last pregnancy, check it out if you have another pregnancy, keep to a diet with a low GI, there is some advice in my expert question. But if it's not this, I wouldn't be concerned at all.
20:11:40 ourwiefamily ok ... thank you!
20:11:54 sarahjbuckley Thanks, another question?
20:12:12 Webmama_Tina last chatter in queue: yaka11
20:12:24 Webmama_Tina oh woops, looks like she left
20:12:32 Webmama_Tina well thankyou so much sarah!
20:12:45 Webmama_Tina this was a great chat! i really appreciate you taking time from you busy schedule to chat with us!
20:12:51 Webmama_Tina and thankyou mamas for joining us!
20:13:13 sarahjbuckley It's a pleasure Tina, thanks and blessings, gentle mamas!
20:13:26 TurboClaudia thank you sarah!

 

 

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